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Regarding the new allegations of misconduct from NICALiS

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Sep 14, 2019 at 5:32 PM
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#21
NICALiS as a company has done a great job at bringing some indies to the forefront... that and a Veggie Tales game... Jokes aside, I don't want to see the company itself go, but some rearrangement in management is probably due by now. Cancel culture has basically set it down a path that would be hellish to escape, even simply demoting Tyrone would likely make things for the company itself smooth again.

The Cave Story re-releases seem to have been very mistreated for how important of a game it is, and honestly, 3D was probably the largest step up, but that's probably because they had an entire seperate company working with them. It seems the passion just isn't there amongst those in NICALiS, and honestly with CSE2 we're slowly outdoing them one step at a time. Who knows, maybe it's not NICALiS holding CS back, but Pixel, wouldn't that be a plot twist for all of the memesters in CSMC.

I personally am not okay with the racism, and even if Tyrone himself is in a minority, that doesn't give him any more moral high ground to use racial slurs, I was taught this much by my family, a weird mix of White, Mexican, Armenian, and Native American, but yet I use no racial slurs even according to my own ethnicity. I don't want game developers to be allowed to use this kind of language, it's been seen in the past to a lesser extent with Brutal Doom, but I never knew it actually went up to the heads of companies.

Miscommunication between developers does bother me a ton, my most recent project had to be delayed recently due to me waiting on the tertiary musician to make the music for New Game +, but at least that gave me time to implement a few new features. For the few of us on the website that are looking into game development seriously, this is a good learning experience about the inevitability of cancel culture, I know for someone like myself, the moment I become popular someone's gonna leak a conversation I had when I was like 12 and the internet will make a huge fuss about it.

I wonder what will happen with Cave Story in the event Pixel distances himself from NICALiS, how will modding be treated? Will the engine become open source and be allowed to use for actual commercial products like how DOOM's was? I have a feeling this situation will encourage Pixel himself to take SOME action, he's been rather silent on Twitter it seems, his most recent posts only really relating to Zelda II, so we'll have to wait and see on his front.

Who knows, NICALiS isn't that far from where I live last I checked
This makes me wonder what pixel is doing right now...
I think the reason Cave Story has been "held back" is because Nicalis would rather just keep making new issac games or it could be because it's not popular enough.
It's depressing...
 
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Sep 14, 2019 at 5:56 PM
Okay I give up... for now
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#22
X-Calibar brought up some really good points. I'd like to clarify that I'm also not a fan of hyper-active cancel culture, nor of publicly posting people's private conversations from years ago. I actually think it was a bit low for those people to leak those private conversations. Even though I wouldn't make the same jokes that Tyrone made, and I recognize that that was really unprofessional, I really don't find it that offensive- that's just someone trying to be edgy in a private text conversation, nothing too out of the ordinary.

I think the main focus should be on the way that Tyrone allegedly pressured people into getting drunk so that he could gain the upper hand in business deals. That's what I find to really be egregious here, and that's what I think should be focused on. It was really disheartening to see Tyrone apologize for the silly jokes he cracked over text, and pretending that we wouldn't notice the blatant exploitation he did of his employees and potential business partners. That iCarly meme that Jade linked to is perfect.
 
Sep 15, 2019 at 4:51 AM
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#23
take Cave Story elsewhere
I mean the original game is already on Playism.

demoting Tyrone
Isn't NiCALiS basically Tyrone's baby?

I don't mind people making edgy jokes, but you can't do that in a work environment. It's less than unprofessional. And to have your boss doing it? That's not a nice position to be in.

Pixel won't respond to this, he probably doesn't care and has better things to be doing. While he has acknowledged Tyrone repeatedly in the credits of his games, and hung out with him on a few occasions, it may be nothing more than a business relationship.
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 1:52 AM
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#24
It's less than unprofessional. And to have your boss doing it? That's not a nice position to be in.
Trust me I know, I had to get my act together to get my discord server verified and now I'm accidentally too professional to the point of people getting mad at me for enforcing rules.
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 4:32 AM
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#25
Trust me I know, I had to get my act together to get my discord server verified and now I'm accidentally too professional to the point of people getting mad at me for enforcing rules.
This is why I'm surprised nobody voted him out? Unless that's not a part of their company structure.
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 5:34 AM
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#27
I doubt there's any structure in the first place.
Good point, actually. Going back to that theory of NiCALiS just being Tyrone's project with everyone else on board for the ride. There wouldn't be anything wrong with that if he was being a good leader.
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 6:02 AM
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#28
Secretly we're all Nicalis and Tyrone is embellishing in all this.
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 6:05 AM
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#29
Secretly we're all Nicalis and Tyrone is embellishing in all this.
Don't Michael and Dixon work there now or something?
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 7:43 AM
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#30
Don't Michael and Dixon work there now or something?
GIR works there, Shmitz (original creator of Jenka's Nightmare) works there... Wait, Noxid works there now?
 
Sep 16, 2019 at 7:45 AM
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#31
GIR works there, Shmitz (original creator of Jenka's Nightmare) works there... Wait, Noxid works there now?
I must be remembering incorrectly.
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM
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#32
most people who typed like that were just going along with how everyone else talked to each other. Bad habits made, and didn't apparently break them. (What year were those messages btw?? '11-'17?) People might find the text unacceptable to today's standards
The language was never acceptable, not when it was "common", not because it was, and certainly not now. Just because people are finally pushing back against it doesn't mean it was okay before they were.

His "Cons" are legitimate concerns for anyone who wants to get involved with him. And yet, the article doesn't have "Pros". Do all the employees feel the same? Seems hardly balanced.
Because the article is entirely about the accusations, not about him.

I see too many discord dumps, old tweets, pictures from years ago used to discredit or cancel people's livelihood these days.
Age is irrelevant if the fact hasn't changed. In fact, "he's always been this way" is only an exacerbating factor if he hasn't changed.

...Being in the public eye is just a ticking time bomb. And you never know what you might have typed in the past or who you offended that'll come to haunt your future.
Unless of course you just, don't do offensive shit in the first place. Or, if it does come up, you acknowledge it, admit it, and apologize for it and it'll probably blow over unless it was particularly egregious.

That door you decided you held open long enough for enough people? The person who was still coming remembers
Being nice to five, fifty, five hundred, however many people doesn't excuse being a dickhead to someone else.

this really reeks of the whole projared event honestly
So what you're saying is it reeks of an asshole getting exposed for what he is?

but if tyrone makes a huge 40 minute video explaining his receipts in about 3 months then maybe thats something i can get behind
Projared might have explained away the pedophilia accusations, but there's no explaining away the cheating; that's confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt. He's still a dirtbag, but that's only a step or two above the living trash he was before.

hyper-active cancel culture
isn't real.

Will the engine become open source and be allowed to use for actual commercial products like how DOOM's was?
This would be really cool actually, but I'm sure there'd be licensing issues or other legal shenanigans preventing it from happening

I really don't find it that offensive- that's just someone trying to be edgy in a private text conversation
"Edgy" and "offensive" aren't the same thing. There's no excuse to be the latter, and there's plenty of ways to be the former without being edgy.
 
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Sep 17, 2019 at 1:35 AM
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#33
All of this stuff happening makes me feel bad for buyings so many Cave Story ports from them
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 2:23 AM
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#34
So what you're saying is it reeks of an asshole getting exposed for what he is?


Projared might have explained away the pedophilia accusations, but there's no explaining away the cheating; that's confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt. He's still a dirtbag, but that's only a step or two above the living trash he was before.
He never cheated in the first place though. He wanted to divorce Heidi, but Heidi threatened to screw his career over if he did. The two eventually "agreed" on going into a polyamorous relationship (heidi and projared both dated other people, and jared had his blog that heidi approved of)

Regardless, even if he did cheat on his wife (which he did not) because of his situation, how does that have to do with his content at all?? That's their own private relationship problems. Whatever happens with Projared and Heidi (who is just as much of a "dirtbag" as he is by the way) literally should not matter in the public eye. There was no abuse, and currently no actual solid evidence of cheating aside from Heidi whining on twitter and constantly changing up her story, compared to Projared's solid story and receipts. jared's main mistake was waiting so long on the divorce imo, but honestly it's not my issue. thats their own stuff for them to figure out, not for heidi to drag into the public eye so she can scrape up whatever amount of twitter clout is left.
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 3:23 AM
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#35
The entire thing has turned into a pissing match between the three and at this point I don't give a fuck which one of them is "right" anymore, there's proven dirt on all three
It matters in the public eye because nice people don't - or, at least, shouldn't, and yet, - like supporting abusers of any kind at all.
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 10:58 AM
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#36
All of this stuff happening makes me feel bad for buyings so many Cave Story ports from them
Ignorance is bliss.

K bold answers because I'm lazy:
>Malpercio, post: 370763, member: 1376
The language was never acceptable, not when it was "common", not because it was, and certainly not now. Just because people are finally pushing back against it doesn't mean it was okay before they were.
It is worth noting that as with sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination in workplaces used to be more commonplace, especially in times where people belonging to these groups would have struggled more to find work. Nowadays people widely accept that it's okay for anyone to be independent and have a job, and thus workplace discrimination is now on its way out.
It's easy to complain about "all those monkeys" in an all-Caucasian workplace, but when some of your staff are African American they probably won't accept that kind of behaviour.


Because the article is entirely about the accusations, not about him.
The accusations against the company, specifically, most of which are accusations specifically towards Tyrone, but the ghosting could theoretically be separated from him. (Even if it was probably at his behest, there's plausable deniability.)

Age is irrelevant if the fact hasn't changed. In fact, "he's always been this way" is only an exacerbating factor if he hasn't changed.
Pretty much. If he hasn't changed, he hasn't changed. We haven't seen any of that.

Unless of course you just, don't do offensive shit in the first place. Or, if it does come up, you acknowledge it, admit it, and apologize for it and it'll probably blow over unless it was particularly egregious.
Better yet: acknowledge it before people leak it like this. I have a lot of respect for people who can do that.

Being nice to five, fifty, five hundred, however many people doesn't excuse being a dickhead to someone else.
People treat certain others differently. That's completely normal. Some people just shouldn't share space with one-another, and as long as they mutually accept that everything can be alright. (this is why living in a small town must really suck)
Holding a door open and giving someone a job are not comparable. They're almost opposite.
A job: you perform a task (situations may vary) and are usually awarded fiat money.
Door: you perform an optional but politey-perceived task which may never even be recognised.


Projared might have explained away the pedophilia accusations, but there's no explaining away the cheating; that's confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt. He's still a dirtbag, but that's only a step or two above the living trash he was before.
'living trash he was before' - you're saying someone being accused of something is the same as them having done it, and that properly refuting that allegation is the same as undoing it? I certainly hope you didn't mean to word it like this.

[cancel culture] isn't real.
Cancel culture is undeniably real (and is probably much older than we think...), though it's still fairly new as a named concept and the term may yet be volatile (see: feminist).

"Edgy" and "offensive" aren't the same thing. There's no excuse to be the latter, and there's plenty of ways to be the former without being edgy.
Here's an excuse you can even use at local parties! It's called: bigotry!
Some people like to misname name it 'religion' or 'politics' for their convenience, but bigotry is the same no matter what you call it.
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 12:59 PM
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#37
The entire thing has turned into a pissing match between the three and at this point I don't give a fuck which one of them is "right" anymore, there's proven dirt on all three
It matters in the public eye because nice people don't - or, at least, shouldn't, and yet, - like supporting abusers of any kind at all.
except it hasnt because jared has stayed completely silent on the issue since he released his video and has been trying to get back into the groove of his regular content like streaming games again. heidi on the other hand has been doing the opposite
it's not about "supporting an abuser", its about jared being completely screwed over because of some admittedly awful decisions he made (that still were completely legal) and some even worse decisions heidi made (refusing to divorce jared when he asked, starting the polyamory, encouraging his blog (then pretending like she was never okay with it), encouraging him to get with holly and then completely backpedalling when it turns out the guy who wanted to divorce you just fell in love with the girl you said it was okay for him to be in a relationship with too, making the divorce public on facebook to her 200+ workfriends which pretty much cornered jared into making his public statement to avoid rumors, etc.)
jared is really stupid yes but by no means is he a dirtbag or an abuser; twitter has completely ignored his side of the story on this. he just wants to review games lol
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 7:21 PM
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#38
It is worth noting that as with sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination in workplaces used to be more commonplace, especially in times where people belonging to these groups would have struggled more to find work. Nowadays people widely accept that it's okay for anyone to be independent and have a job, and thus workplace discrimination is now on its way out.
It's easy to complain about "all those monkeys" in an all-Caucasian workplace, but when some of your staff are African American they probably won't accept that kind of behaviour.
My point wasn't that it didn't happen, but that it wasn't acceptable even then, much less now.

'living trash he was before' - you're saying someone being accused of something is the same as them having done it, and that properly refuting that allegation is the same as undoing it? I certainly hope you didn't mean to word it like this.
"proof" was presented from one side, then proof presented from the other, so the initial understanding was that he was a pedophile, but then his video demonstrated that he wasn't and the earlier proof had been misrepresented

jared is really stupid yes but by no means is he a dirtbag or an abuser; twitter has completely ignored his side of the story on this. he just wants to review games lol
pedophile or not, cheater or not, there's no question he wasn't soliciting/sending nudes to fans (iirc, even he doesn't deny this) - dirtbag
(I still believe he cheated, but even in a world where he didn't, there's still reasons left over to hate him.)
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 9:06 PM
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#39
Most of the following is focuses on generalizations which might not pertain to what actually happened:
X-Calibar said:
most people who typed like that were just going along with how everyone else talked to each other. Bad habits made, and didn't apparently break them. (What year were those messages btw?? '11-'17?) People might find the text unacceptable to today's standards
The language was never acceptable, not when it was "common", not because it was, and certainly not now. Just because people are finally pushing back against it doesn't mean it was okay before they were.
I think there is a point to be considered about habits that were acceptable in a community that they lived within, but in today's more unified culture are not. So, I think it is right to call out when someone is doing something wrong. But, they should be challenged to do better (if it was not a crime), rather than shamed out of business.

Also an example: you have that recent Netflix special with Dave Chappelle saying a lot of offensive things, and you have something like this happen: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dave_chappelle_sticks_and_stones (Look at the ratings and ratios.)
People support being able to trash talk or make offensive jokes if you are in the right context. However, it is not acceptable to the mainstream eye. Not to mention text loses context versus hearing and seeing a person convey their message. An edgy joke becomes something darker under another's microscope.

The way I see it, is that the world has changed rapidly for millennials and older generations. Growing up before smart phones and the internet, the experiences people had were more isolated per region.
For example: I was in school while the internet was just starting to gain popularity. The school was pretty diverse, but pretty much everyone I knew got along equally during my years. Felt like most everyone was pretty friendly. (As much as kids are with each other at least. There was always occasional conflicts, but it was between individuals...) I could just have been oblivious of course, but I never saw the kind of narratives that made the news in recent years. It wasn't until I went to a certain big university for a short time, that I attended huge classes and started to see some people blatantly disrespecting each other and the professor to their face... That was hard for me to deal with. (Less discussion, more insulting.)

Well, by then the internet was a big thing. For better and for worse as the media and the internet began to connect to everyone, all the negative sentiments that probably are happening in some places, are pushed everywhere, even to communities that didn't seem to have some of these problems (At least on the surface.). News headlines were one thing, but now with personal blogs, videos, etc; it hits closer to home as we feel a connection to other individuals (without it actually being close to home...?).

Blame and unrest hits everyone. Agendas and news are mass produced for everyone, despite intentions, despite consequences of how much they might or might not exist in our own community...
I guess the point of my story is, it's too bad people can't grow up gradually with the internet like my classmates were able to. I imagine if you see the kind of news being pushed today, it does slowly crawl under your skin. Makes you weary where previously everyone I knew seemed more laid back with each other. (Of course on the flip side, there's so much fun content to discover xD )

Anyway, I just hope people growing up these days don't get sucked into narratives that they haven't experienced in their own area. It's good to be informed and be there for everyone, but somehow we have to hold on to our individuality... Be ourselves, and not someone's category~ or shaped by news or something...! [/rantend]

His "Cons" are legitimate concerns for anyone who wants to get involved with him. And yet, the article doesn't have "Pros". Do all the employees feel the same? Seems hardly balanced.
Because the article is entirely about the accusations, not about him.
It is true, but a majority of people will make a snap judgement based on the article without doing any further research. Fans will cut ties because of accusations. Maybe that's just how it goes. But, it's like dealing with politics imo. I need to decide on how I will vote, and I don't have the time to do full research on every matter. Do I rely on a commercial with a possibly sound one-sided argument that frames them in a particular light? Sadly, sometimes yeah. But, what I would rather see, is all the facts presented plainly, from both sides... Let me make my best judgement, don't make it for me... (Random: I've never been selected as a juror because I keep questioning everything when called... lol)

Zxin made a good point here btw. When I hear NICALiS I think of Tyrone. However the lack of communication between various parties could be more involved than we know rather than just ignoring or blowing off communications with developers. All this speculating is making me feel like a gossip lol.

I see too many discord dumps, old tweets, pictures from years ago used to discredit or cancel people's livelihood these days.
Age is irrelevant if the fact hasn't changed. In fact, "he's always been this way" is only an exacerbating factor if he hasn't changed.
I think I was getting off topic at this point, but facts... age. For example: A person who dresses up for Halloween as an idol which happens to be black, years later are condemned for wearing blackface makeup with no ill intent back then. Or how about in Tyrone's case in relation to the drinking? There is a previously established culture of making deals over drinks. Is that what it was? Did he take it too far? Well, when you're under the influence people have been known to do stupid things. Sadly it's hard to know what is acceptable, and what is offensive in today's changing climate. Especially if you are travelling around the world.

When you leave the place you were raised in, usually you have to retrain yourself to the environment you head to. (Oh and also some people are afraid to say no, and would rather hold a grudge, rather than risk conflict by calling it out (it is just a different personality or way of thinking)). But a job in games, indie games (some of which are remotely located) versus say a big corporate company with strict policies, might mean you hang around a less formal crowd. And also when you interact with lots of young heated gamers, over the years, you might pick up their behaviors too. (I know from experience that playing FPS games for 10 years formed some bad habits and tolerance for trash talk lol.) It all adds up to living a certain way, succeeding... before being called out on the bad habits you've made.

...Being in the public eye is just a ticking time bomb. And you never know what you might have typed in the past or who you offended that'll come to haunt your future.
Unless of course you just, don't do offensive shit in the first place. Or, if it does come up, you acknowledge it, admit it, and apologize for it and it'll probably blow over unless it was particularly egregious.
Easier said than done...
One problem is that everything is probably offensive to someone. Everyone judges lives they have not lived. Everyone judges by the life they have lived. But most everyone deserves a chance to change. In my opinion.

That door you decided you held open long enough for enough people? The person who was still coming remembers
Being nice to five, fifty, five hundred, however many people doesn't excuse being a dickhead to someone else.
That's true, but my point was that perhaps that one person took offense, when no offense was intended. You held the door, but after so long you needed to leave yourself. But with today's technology, perhaps a video surfaces how you held the door for so many people but then it turns out the person it shut on is in a minority group. You could frame that video in two ways... Chivalry not dead! Or... Racism in action!
Basically, the world is infinitely complicated. You'll probably offend someone at some point. All we can do is try our best and try to be informed.

[cancel culture] isn't real.
Cancel culture is undeniably real (and is probably much older than we think...), though it's still fairly new as a named concept and the term may yet be volatile (see: feminist).
I think of it like a form of mob enforced mainstream ethics, and if you trigger the mob... Well there always have been some form of movement when it gets extreme. I think these had a few similar qualities:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
etc.

I think I went in a loop... well after writing this, I'm going to focus on games again; rather than this stuff :balrog:
 
Sep 17, 2019 at 11:36 PM
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#40
pedophile or not, cheater or not, there's no question he wasn't soliciting/sending nudes to fans (iirc, even he doesn't deny this) - dirtbag
(I still believe he cheated, but even in a world where he didn't, there's still reasons left over to hate him.)
it's not really soliciting though since he never offered anyone any reward/gain for doing so. if he had said he'd shout them out in his next video, that would be soliciting, but he didn't do that. soliciting implies he cornered people into doing so, which couldn't be further from the truth. his blog thing was aimed at adults, and he was sure to confirm that it was adults he was talking to. theres no evidence of him forcing anyone to post explicit content, and i'm 100% sure adults can make rational decisions about this sort of thing anyway. jared just wanted to have a private blog which (while i find it completely degenerate and disgusting) is perfectly fine for him to do, since he did make sure everyone he talked to was 18.
if you see a problem with this you might be a right-wing extremist
 
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