Cave Story+ vs. Kero Blaster

Mar 1, 2020 at 6:44 AM
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-Notice-
-These are my opinions, I don't speak for anyone else when I make this thread
-The original Cave Story will not be part of this, the 10 year difference obviously would make this unfair.

So I was just hanging around, playing Cave Story+ when I suddenly remembered, "Hey, Pixel made more than just Cave Story, riiiight." so then on my Switch I got Kero Blaster, and didn't think much of it, it seemed like a simpler Cave Story, a step backward, however, I was very, very wrong. Instead what I found was anotha' masta piece.
-Graphics-
You can't compare games without talking about their graphics, and Kero Blaster is great, actually, while it's nothing too crazy, the backgrounds can be beautiful, and all of them really fit the level you're on, now look at Cave Story+, it's backgrounds, match the colors of the "level" your on (I did "'level'" for Cave Story and just "level" for Kero Blaster because they're called levels in Kero Blaster.) and usually are stone, cave backgrounds, looking like remakes of previous backgrounds, however, there are very few who do that, so it works. Kero Blaster's tile sets are very detailed, however, I think for tile sets Cave Story takes the cake, Cave Story's help me know what the theme is, however, I can't really tell without the name of the level for Kero Blaster. Enemies in Kero Blaster, are very, veerrrry simple usually consisting of one or 2 colors. Cave Story's, again, fit with the theme more than Kero Blaster's does, however, I praise KB's simplicity. The character design makes more sense in KB, when you see your character it like "Yup, that's a frog." Cave Story+, when I see the remastered graphics, Quote's face makes me cringe hard, why does he have a mouth. Overall: Cave Story+ wins
-Music-
Cave Story+ and KB are equal here, for me anyways, honestly, they both had their fair share of forgettable songs, and they both have their catchy tunes like KB's first level, and Cave Story+'s Moonsong.
-Story-
Again, I think they're equal here, they both have very simple storys, however, Kero Blaster lacks something Cave Story has, friends, and, no, this isn't a joke, Cave Story has Curly Brace, King, Sue, Kazuma, etc. and KB has...purple cat...nice. We don't really get to learn about the characters in KB, which is disappointing. Overall: Cave Story+ wins
-Weapons-
So this is a big, BIG turning point for KB, it's weapons are incredible, Cave Story has the Spur, Polar Star, Snake, Nemesis, etc. and Kero Blaster has four weapons and a secret weapon, the Kuro Blaster, which doesn't have any upgrades, oh, yeah Kero Blaster has upgrades, instead of exploring a little bit, you buy it with money which you get by using your pistol to steal enemies wallets. Cave Story has good weapons too don't get me wrong, but every upgrade for a weapon in KB feels like a new weapon entirely, and sometimes, the Spur! (yeah, Pixel put the Spur and Faster Spur without the charging part) Cave Story's weapons level up, meaning they just increase (or in the nemesis's case, decrease) power and range. Overall: Kero Blaster wins
-Difficulties-
I hated Cave Story's lazy way of making new difficulties, Easy mode was just "Who needs easy mode." and hard mode...exists...for some reason. But Kero Blaster, oh ho ho, Kero Blaster, is, amazing!!! It's hard mode remakes levels entirely, changes the plot, makes power-ups more expensive, has new areas, is the true ending, has even some original music to the mode.
This mode also leads to yellow frog mode, where you have 1 heart (which you can still upgrade) and keep all weapon upgrades, you also get YOUR wallet stolen and you have all this happen by telling a frog you want more gameplay. Yellow frog mode ALSO leads to the Kuro Blaster, and Boss Rush mode, which Cave Story+ does have, along with other modes, so I guess Cave Story+ would win in that department, however, the way Pixel masterfully handled the Hard Mode and how to unlock Boss Rush, is just perfection. Overall: Kero Blaster wins
-Controls-
They are the same on Switch, and PC I think, and Kero Blaster automatically holds where your looking when shooting, which is nice, however, Frog boi is a floaty son of a mother and the when in mid air, it's hard to turn around, the jet pack controls fine though. Cave Story+ definitely feels better, and less floaty, but it feels heavy in my opinion, and I think they both play great.
-Conclusion-
I like both games a lot, love them even, Cave Story is definitely still my #1 game, but that's for nostalgic reasons, if I were to say which one was better, I wouldn't be able to tell you, they seem, to be, in my opinion, equals. Kero Blaster still handles every better than Cave Story+ though.
 
Mar 1, 2020 at 4:05 PM
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I'm still of the opinion that Kero Blaster is a much better game than Cave Story, it would deserve more attention, but it doesn't get said attention because it's just simply not as revolutionary as Cave Story was.

KB is, in my opinion, proof that game developers do improve over time and that developers improve over time.

The music is more advanced (if you compare org to pxtone), the levels have much more thought put into them, the environments feel alot more interesting, and the story has some actual relevance to the real world and how people are treated in Japan's toxic work culture.

In some cases, restraint really can make things better, you can see it in Kero Blaster's art and music, and if you boil down the levels, they're all very easy to wrap your head around.

From a game design perspective, Frog Gun Game is just wonderful and it serves as a reference point that I've begun to follow more than Cave Story at this point.

IMO the only thing Cave Story had over Kero Blaster is the exploration, and even that was pretty limited.
 
Mar 1, 2020 at 7:00 PM
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Tbh, Kero Blaster is definitely a lot more fun to play, especially if you're either playing blind or bad at video games and having Sydney roast you the whole way through. Even for someone who has Cave Story's soundtrack memorized, I'd say the Kero Blaster soundtrack is more memorable (and catchier, too).
Now, if only KB mods become a thing so there can be a whole level and boss dedicated to the Wheel.
 
Mar 1, 2020 at 10:01 PM
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In some cases, restraint really can make things better, you can see it in Kero Blaster's art and music, and if you boil down the levels, they're all very easy to wrap your head around.
I agree, when you first play Kero Blaster it shows and teaches you how to use whatever they gave you, Jet pack, Flame thrower, in a simple and easy to understand way.
The music is more advanced (if you compare org to pxtone), the levels have much more thought put into them, the environments feel alot more interesting, and the story has some actual relevance to the real world and how people are treated in Japan's toxic work culture.
Really? I mean, I didn't really ever think of looking into how Japan and Kero Blaster relate, that's pretty cool.
Tbh, Kero Blaster is definitely a lot more fun to play, especially if you're either playing blind or bad at video games
I'd have to agree, I played through both blind and found Kero Blaster to be much more of a fun challenge than Cave Story ever was.
 
Mar 2, 2020 at 2:20 AM
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i won't rank the base games because i enjoy them equally for different reasons, so i'll talk about hardmode instead:
while i'm definitely enjoying kero's hardmode compared to CS+, it does feel a bit unfairly hard at times (especially white labs holy shit i hate that place) - the amount of instadeath obstacles, and the whole 'lose all your lives go back to the beginning of the level!' starts to make it lose its enjoyment. i know they're relatively short levels but the amped up difficulty make them a slog sometimes, plus all enjoyment i gain from finally getting past a tricky segment quickly evaporates when i miss a jump, die, and go riiiiiight back to the beginning 5 mins later. oof. i think i would enjoy it more if there was, say, a mid-level checkpoint - maybe after you beat the miniboss or something.

CS+'s 'hardmode' is definitely lazy bullshit, and i don't see myself ever getting out of the labyrinth (fuck you monster x), but... at least when you finally manage a tricky jump and reach a save, that's it, you beat that part and you're not forced to do it again.
 
Mar 2, 2020 at 2:47 AM
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(fuck you monster x)
I agree (Tip: Bubbler is helpful in this fight)
while i'm definitely enjoying kero's hardmode compared to CS+, it does feel a bit unfairly hard at times (especially white labs holy shit i hate that place
true, the first screen, I thought you were supposed to kill the enemies, however, it says "hah, no." and instead wants me to jump on top of them/in front of them. The white labs also have extremely hard platforming, the snow level I can't remember the name of for the life of me, has a part with a hard Jet pack jump, that, I think, is mostly trial and error white when and how you double jump.
the amount of instadeath obstacles, and the whole 'lose all your lives go back to the beginning of the level!' starts to make it lose its enjoyment. i know they're relatively short levels but the amped up difficulty make them a slog sometimes, plus all enjoyment i gain from finally getting past a tricky segment quickly evaporates when i miss a jump, die, and go riiiiiight back to the beginning 5 mins later.
I agree with this, I took many, MANY breaks in my playthrough, but I beat the Normal Kero Blaster difficulty in one go, I can't say I had as much fun as I did in my first playthrough.
I overall think it's amazing how much effort went into this Hard Mode, Level 7 - Destination is like a buffed up Back to Office, it's really fun to fight some original bosses, and Ballos phase 3 + projectiles
 
Mar 9, 2020 at 7:05 AM
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I hated Cave Story's lazy way of making new difficulties, Easy mode was just "Who needs easy mode." and hard mode...exists...for some reason.
Keep in mind that the difficulty modes were added by Nicalis, not Pixel. The original game's approach to making new difficulties was the creation of Hell. However 3hp runs were a common self-imposed challenge by fans before CS+ was even a thing, so there is history there.
 
Mar 9, 2020 at 7:14 AM
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Just add lots of spikes and make the enemies practically unkillable. That'll put some REAL difficulty in CS+! :orangebell:
 
Mar 9, 2020 at 8:01 AM
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how 2 make good cave story hardmode (working 2020!!):
- plaster every solid surface in the game with instakill spikes
- ???
- profit
 
Mar 9, 2020 at 12:24 PM
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Keep in mind that the difficulty modes were added by Nicalis, not Pixel. The original game's approach to making new difficulties was the creation of Hell. However 3hp runs were a common self-imposed challenge by fans before CS+ was even a thing, so there is history there.
yes I know, Pixel didn't add the difficulties.
Just add lots of spikes and make the enemies practically unkillable. That'll put some REAL difficulty in CS+! :orangebell:
maybe add more enemies and ass minor changes to levels, then I would be satisfied
how 2 make good cave story hardmode (working 2020!!):
- plaster every solid surface in the game with instakill spikes
haha, please no
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 4:22 AM
Okay I give up... for now
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how 2 make good cave story hardmode (working 2020!!):
- plaster every solid surface in the game with instakill spikes
- ???
- profit
Death story beat you to the punch on that one years ago.
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 3:38 AM
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Imagine CS if it had an actual proper "difficult" mode...

...That's a good mod idea, I'll write that down.
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 3:40 AM
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Imagine CS if it had an actual proper "difficult" mode...

...That's a good mod idea, I'll write that down.
But would it be Cave Story: Omake mode or Cave Story: Zangyou Mode?
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 3:46 AM
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Cave Story : Recolor all the tilesets and replace all the enemies and music and make the bosses faster and fire a few more projectiles mode

Cave Gaiden?
 
Mar 12, 2020 at 6:00 PM
Working on too many mods at a time.
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Cave Story : Recolor all the tilesets and replace all the enemies and music and make the bosses faster and fire a few more projectiles mode
So basically the difficulty aspects of Cavern Tale but competently made. That is a neat idea.
 
Mar 12, 2020 at 6:42 PM
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Maybe it'll also work with redesigned levels, to add in another twist to the difficulty. Several mods have made it work, making it more difficult, but also more fun.
 
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