Caves : Origins - Questions about Cave Story storyline

WARNING : This topic is pretty long, but if you really want to help with this project - go straight to the questions (1,2,3 and so on).

Introduction
Hello everybody. At first, I'd like to say that I realize that I'm not first with a project like this, but, most of them have been abandoned, and not many of them were actually finished.
I'm making a fangame prequel of Cave Story. I'm still not sure about the plot (there are so many tales it can tell... Who knows, maybe that won't be the last fangame I'll make?), that's why I'm writing this topic in so early stage of developing. I want to have some things clear regarding the main story, but let's get back to the start.

Engine
I'm using Multimedia Fusion 2, since I don't know any programming language that's useful for making games, such as c++ or java, and MMF2 is pretty easy to use for games like this. I know what you think, probably something like "dude, it's for kids, learn something and stop using this", but I believe it depends on my skills, not the way I make it. I know that there are some restrictions coming with this program, but there aren't many of them.

Gameplay
About the physics and stuff - movement is going to be nearly CaveStory-like (acceleration and deceleration of movement can vary, for example), but I'll do my best to make the differences as little as I can. Of course there's going to be something like the Booster, but there may be something double jump and some other stuff. Some things may be difficult to make, but it's just a matter of time to create them - if the idea is good, it's totally worth the effort.

Graphics
About the graphics - pixel art is easy to start with, but hard to master. I'm keeping the same old-school feeling that we know from Cave Story. Tiles are 32x32, but they are resized from 16x16. At the start, I said to myself "I want to make the graphics by myself", but now I see how hard it is to make nice looking tiles, backgrounds, sprites, and then put them together and say "hey, they match, it looks great!". That's why I'm looking for some experienced pixel artist. I will still do them by myself, but I need someone to point out what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve my graphic skills.

Music
About the music and sounds - on this field I'm completely stupid. I like music, I listen to a lot of music every day, but when it comes to creating something nice, it just sounds awful. The second thing is - making the game itself, creating a plot and game mechanics + graphics is already much, and I don't have much time to learn how to use ORG Maker or ORGasm (great name, by the way). So, if anyone wants to share some of their creations with me and want to see them in my game - go ahead, you don't know how graceful I'll be. There's just one thing I need to mention - it has to be 8-bit themed, just like Cave Story music.

Main part of the post - questions about the storyline
And finally, the main reason I'm making this topic so early : THE PLOT.
I have so many ideas where to put the action of this prequel... too many. I don't want it to collide with actual Cave Story storyline, but yet I want to make some stuff. So, I did some research yesterday, and I have some questions that have to be answered before and theories that have to be discussed I can make the plot.

1) Jenka and Ballos lived on the surface before the island has been created?

2) Why there are any living creatures on the island, at least these friendly ones (Mimigas)? As far as I know, it was meant to be a prison for Ballos. Did they come for the surface, for example with the first Crown Bearer?

3) The only thing we know about first two Crown Bearers are their names and look (from statues), am I right? We don't know anything about how they obtained the Demon Crown, what they did while having them or how it changed the Island?

4) If I'm right with the above, does it means that it's a open space for me?

5) Is it possible that Mimiga lived on the top of the Island before the attack of Miakid and killer robots? It would explain why Red Demon that Arthur fought could head back to the "Last Cave" so quickly.

6) I have a few questions about the Arthur. He got killed by the Doctor? Was "The King" his student?

7) So, Miakid came to the Island with killer robots both to get the crown and "tame" the source of energy keeping the island floating, a.k.a. The Core? Countries from the surface wanted to obtain the power of the Demon Crown, but Miakid, blinded by the power of it kept it for himself and went on the rampage, killing both mimigas, humans and killer robots?

8) Quote and Curly Brace were sent to stop Miakid by some kind of rebels? I know it's just a pure theory, but there's nothing that can refute it, right? Both of them were different from those killer robots, they have some sort of 'feelings' programmed by their creator.

9) A question regarding Curly's sacrifice after the fight with the Core. My theory sounds like this : Curly was sent with Quote as an assist, programmed to help him in his mission - destroying the Demon Crown. As he started to drown, she HAD TO help keep him alive, because she was programmed that way. Her secondary goal was to keep him alive. Is it possible?

10) So, in the final fight, Miakid has been defeated - but we don't know who did this. Quote and Curly Brace got damaged (again - in theory) and went into the "coma". Is it possible that King or/and Arthur did this? I kinda doubt it, because the biggest achievement of Arthur was the fight with Red Demon. Any other ideas?

11) Is it possible that Doctor wanted to capture Sue for red flower test because... she was his daughter? He was a scientist, he knew what Demon Crown combined with Red Flowers will make him even more powerful. He could do that right away, but he had to test the reaction to the Red Flowers. Why he picked Sue? Because they shared the same bloodline, so any unpredictable reaction would mean that creating a crystal from Red Flowers would be pointless, as he wouldn't make it with such a power.

12) Is it possible that Dr. Gero and Nurse Hasami, those two NPCs that help us in the Labyrinth are the remnants from the war, and The Labyrinth was created to confuse killer robots and used as a battlefield, and they were "medics" back then? This kinda explains this map system we can find in the labyrinth too, it was just left by some human OR Quote OR Curly.

13) Destroying the core undoes the effects of the Red Flowers, right? That's why it was so important for the Doctor?

14) Nobody from the research group knew about Ballos, right? They just knew that core stops the Island from falling, but they didn't knew about the "negative energy" of Ballos that made the Island falling.

15) Is Hermit Gunsmith somehow related to the Quote? Maybe he was send with him and Curly as their "keeper"? After the fight with Miakid, they got "damaged", and he grabbed Quote (look at nr 9, aka Quote was the main robot and he got to choose him above Curly) and teleported back to his cave, where he repaired him for good ten years. Polar Star was just a broken version of Quote's old weapon, Spur. Quote woke up, found Polar Star and escaped the cave. Hermit saw that, but he waited a bit. When he heard about Quote's whereabouts, he decided to don't interfere and think how to fix the Polar Star. If we come back to him, he justs helps us by fixing our gun, because he knows that our destiny is to defeat the Doctor.

16) And for the end, small question : Where does the door at the start of labyrinth go? What's on the other side of them?

Well, that's a lot of text. I hope there's going to be at least one, good person that can make some things brighter for me.

 

1) Yes, in an ancient and magical kingdom. Presumably full of unicorns and rainbows.
2) Ripping a chunk of earth from the ground and sending it into the sky seems like the most efficient way of making a floating island. I'd think most of the wildlife started on the surface, but since there's no way of knowing how old the island is, it may have experienced major genetic drift.
3) Right, have a ball with that one.
5) There's evidence to suggest the contrary. The Mimiga live off of fish and flowers, both of which are found underground and not on the surface of the island (as far as we can tell). There's also Grasstown, which is clearly an old settlement. Humans wouldn't live underground if Mimigas didn't as well.
6) Please, just King ma'am, you're making me all blushy. Anyway, Arthur was a warrior and protector of Mimiga Village. He fought the Red Demon and trapped him in the Last Cave, and then later was killed by one of the Doctor's minions (PROBABLY Misery). Then he was buried with his key, for some reason. That's all we know! King's relationship with Arthur is unknown, but he is taking care of Arthur's little sister, Toroko.
7) Sounds about right. Unless he wanted to kill the Core for some reason.
8) Quote and Curly have different designs and a different goal, so they were certainly sent by someone else. Someone who couldn't send an army, but had better robotics technology than whoever sent the other robots.
9) I don't think Curly was designed as a sidekick. They are a team, and both of them have roles to play, but one isn't more important than the other. Curly is just a very kind and compassionate person. And perhaps she knew she wouldn't die immediately, and that Quote could save her.
10) King and Arthur couldn't have done it. It was 10 years ago, and they would have been too young. The most likely theory is that Quote and Curly (especially Quote) succeeded in their mission, since Misery recognizes Quote as "that one robot." And Quote is certainly capable of killing a crown-bearer, even with 3HP (woo, hard mode).
11) Maybe. Or maybe she's the only female test subject available, and he wants to yiff her? Take your theory and run with it, I don't see any problem.
12) There's a map in the Labyrinth? Huh what? You should explain this one better.
13) No, the Core is the thing keeping the island floating. If it's destroyed, Ballos will ram the island into the ground. The Doctor wants to keep the island, for obvious reasons.
14) Right, if someone knew about it then it wouldn't be deus ex machina.
15) You'd think he'd mention it to Quote. He's also a jerk for leaving Curly to die.
16) There's only one door in the first room of the Labyrinth and it leads to the rest of the Labyrinth. Not sure what you mean.

About your actual project though: anyone who can draw or compose is already working on something of their own, and not looking for free work. You'll have to figure that out on your own.

And you must forgive how skeptical I'm sure we will seem. Every week we get another person announcing that they're making teh gr8st mod evar but they just need help with the art, music, programming and writing. You can certainly teach yourself these things, but if you're going to turn yourself into a renaissance man just to make a mod, you are crazy moderator material.

(P.S. Yes I know it's not a mod, just shush)

 

I don't mind you being skeptical, I understand this. Well, question nr 16 is deleted, because I forgot how that map looked like (aka my fault). Thanks for the answer, I will do my best to make this game as good as possible.

About nr 12 - the map system you use in game that you find in there.

 

About nr 12 - the map system you use in game that you find in there.

No, the map system is found in the Mimiga village. If you're thinking of that chest located in the camp where Dr. Gero and Nurse Hasumi are, then that chest contains the Arms Barrier.
And as for why the Labyrinth was constructed,

Long, long ago, there lived a witch on this island. She's the one who constructed this labyrinth, in order to keep us Gaudis penned up.

The one who sealed us up in here is a witch named Jenka. ...But it's not because she hates us or anything. We're here in this labyrinth in order to protect something. ...I don't really remember what it is anymore, but that's all right!

 

Good luck on implementing the Organya files in something like MMF2. It would be easier to use pxtone.dll and compose them in PxTone instead, but it's your choice.
And also, for graphics, make sure that you don't use the CS+/Wii graphics even though you said that the graphics will be 100% original. Still though.
Also, if this gives you any more confidence in creating music, Pixel was never a trained musician. If these facts are right, then he put a bunch of notes on the screen and tinkered over and over with them until he made something he liked.
As for art and music, it takes a little of practice to make something satisfying. I want to use Noxid as an example but I can't find the picture that he did of KS&S a couple of years ago right now, and contrast it to something that he did several days ago. Hopefully he can shed some light on this soon.

Also, I'm not really going to answer these questions because I feel that it should be up to the player's imagination.

Also not necessarily on topic but I want to point out anyway for shits and giggles...!​

 

Also, if this gives you any more confidence in creating music, Pixel was never a trained musician. If these facts are right, then he put a bunch of notes on the screen and tinkered over and over with them until he made something he liked.

Or it's just because he's asian.

About this map system - I think I played too much mods and it was something from one of them, nevermind.

 

As for art and music, it takes a little of practice to make something satisfying. I want to use Noxid as an example but I can't find the picture that he did of KS&S a couple of years ago right now, and contrast it to something that he did several days ago. Hopefully he can shed some light on this soon.

I can help you out with that one.
2010:

Spoiler

2011

Spoiler

2012

Spoiler

so basically if you want to get better at something just keep doing it regardless of how good or bad you may be

 

tl;dr hope you like hard work and lots of it. I wouldn't recommend just sitting in front of your computer and throwing art at the wall to see what sticks. There are books and many, many websites that can help you.

 

Main part of the post - questions about the storyline
And finally, the main reason I'm making this topic so early : THE PLOT.
I have so many ideas where to put the action of this prequel... too many. I don't want it to collide with actual Cave Story storyline, but yet I want to make some stuff. So, I did some research yesterday, and I have some questions that have to be answered before and theories that have to be discussed I can make the plot.

1) Jenka and Ballos lived on the surface before the island has been created?

Yes, in the magical kingdom that Ballos destroyed. Ballos also had a wife and a child.

2) Why there are any living creatures on the island, at least these friendly ones (Mimigas)? As far as I know, it was meant to be a prison for Ballos. Did they come for the surface, for example with the first Crown Bearer?

Jenka "created" the island. It was most likely uprooted from the ground a real island on the ocean, which explains why Mimigas and Gaudi and the such would only live there, and I believe that Mimigas and Gaudi lived there beforehand. Really, the only things Jenka would have made would be the Sacred Grounds and the Core (along with the Labyrinth) and put the Gaudis into the Labyrinth.

3) The only thing we know about first two Crown Bearers are their names and look (from statues), am I right? We don't know anything about how they obtained the Demon Crown, what they did while having them or how it changed the Island?

Yes.

4) If I'm right with the above, does it means that it's a open space for me?

The best part about making a prequel to Cave Story is that the answer to this question is yes.

5) Is it possible that Mimiga lived on the top of the Island before the attack of Miakid and killer robots? It would explain why Red Demon that Arthur fought could head back to the "Last Cave" so quickly.

That is perfectly possible.

6) I have a few questions about the Arthur. He got killed by the Doctor? Was "The King" his student?

His name is actually King, first of all, it's not his title. People saying that always make me mad. (Nothing personal.) But yes, he was killed by the Doctor, but the relation between Arthur and King is unknown. I think they were like brothers to each other, and that King was an orphan, but that's just me.

7) So, Miakid came to the Island with killer robots both to get the crown and "tame" the source of energy keeping the island floating, a.k.a. The Core? Countries from the surface wanted to obtain the power of the Demon Crown, but Miakid, blinded by the power of it kept it for himself and went on the rampage, killing both mimigas, humans and killer robots?

No, he only went to get the Demon Crown.

8) Quote and Curly Brace were sent to stop Miakid by some kind of rebels? I know it's just a pure theory, but there's nothing that can refute it, right? Both of them were different from those killer robots, they have some sort of 'feelings' programmed by their creator.

It's more like there's nothing that can't refute it. They had a mission directly opposite to the other robots, and they were decades ahead of their time.

9) A question regarding Curly's sacrifice after the fight with the Core. My theory sounds like this : Curly was sent with Quote as an assist, programmed to help him in his mission - destroying the Demon Crown. As he started to drown, she HAD TO help keep him alive, because she was programmed that way. Her secondary goal was to keep him alive. Is it possible?

I think it would be more like they have to try to keep each other alive.

10) So, in the final fight, Miakid has been defeated - but we don't know who did this. Quote and Curly Brace got damaged (again - in theory) and went into the "coma". Is it possible that King or/and Arthur did this? I kinda doubt it, because the biggest achievement of Arthur was the fight with Red Demon. Any other ideas?

Your only basis for that Arthur didn't do it is that the Red Demon is fought before a crown-bearer in the game. Think of it this way. The Doctor would be a much easier fight than the Red Demon if he didn't have the Red Crystal, right? And if you didn't have to fight Misery before him, he would be even easier, perhaps if she had been defeated beforehand, by someone else? (Hint: Quote and Curly) And if he had taken hits beforehand as well? He would have been simple. It would have been just finishing a job. And even if you still consider killing Miakid to be a greater feat than banishing the Red Demon, think of it this way. Which is more congratulation deserving; building a house, or putting a finishing (literally) touch on a mansion?

11) Is it possible that Doctor wanted to capture Sue for red flower test because... she was his daughter? He was a scientist, he knew what Demon Crown combined with Red Flowers will make him even more powerful. He could do that right away, but he had to test the reaction to the Red Flowers. Why he picked Sue? Because they shared the same bloodline, so any unpredictable reaction would mean that creating a crystal from Red Flowers would be pointless, as he wouldn't make it with such a power.

We have so threads for this question, try checking those. There are some really good theories in there.

12) Is it possible that Dr. Gero and Nurse Hasumi, those two NPCs that help us in the Labyrinth are the remnants from the war, and The Labyrinth was created to confuse killer robots and used as a battlefield, and they were "medics" back then? This kinda explains this Arms Barrier we can find in the labyrinth too, it was just left by some human OR Quote OR Curly.

Corrections in italic. But that's a really good idea, and very possible.

13) Destroying the core undoes the effects of the Red Flowers, right? That's why it was so important for the Doctor?

I think it's more how the Doctor doesn't want the island to fall and lose all his hard work on the Red Crystal.

14) Nobody from the research group knew about Ballos, right? They just knew that core stops the Island from falling, but they didn't knew about the "negative energy" of Ballos that made the Island falling.

Absolutely none of them. The only surface dwellers that may have possibly known about Ballos would be the creator(s) of Quote and Curly, if the messages Quote gets in Hell are part of his programming, which they may or may not be.

15) Is Hermit Gunsmith somehow related to the Quote? Maybe he was send with him and Curly as their "keeper"? After the fight with Miakid, they got "damaged", and he grabbed Quote (look at nr 9, aka Quote was the main robot and he got to choose him above Curly) and teleported back to his cave, where he repaired him for good ten years. Polar Star was just a broken version of Quote's old weapon, Spur. Quote woke up, found Polar Star and escaped the cave. Hermit saw that, but he waited a bit. When he heard about Quote's whereabouts, he decided to don't interfere and think how to fix the Polar Star. If we come back to him, he justs helps us by fixing our gun, because he knows that our destiny is to defeat the Doctor.

See question eleven.

16) And for the end, small question : Where does the door at the start of labyrinth go? What's on the other side of them?

No comment.


Well, that's a lot of text. I hope there's going to be at least one, good person that can make some things brighter for me.

Answers in bold. Also I'm confused about whether this should be in theories or ideas and development, but I don't think it should be in general discussion.

 

Gee, thanks for adding a redundant block of text to this thread.

 

tl;dr hope you like hard work and lots of it. I wouldn't recommend just sitting in front of your computer and throwing art at the wall to see what sticks. There are books and many, many websites that can help you.

I realize it's not a month-length project and it's going to take me a lot of time, but that's why I like it. Whenever I'll make something nice (sprite/music) I'll be satisfied with it, because it's my work and time spend on it. The worst thing is shading sprites so they look better. Of course I read articles on the net about how things work in this matter (I don't feel like buying a book, not right now anyway).

Dunc2403 - thanks for the answers. I think I already know the details about the storyline, so there's no need to answer them again from now on.

 

"Jenka "created" the island."

I would like to point out that this is merely speculation. The game says that Ballos was confined to the island, it doesn't say that Jenka created it, or even anything at all about its creation. The island could very well predate Jenka.

As for Miakid's death it should be noted that he made enemies of a fair number of government entities that wanted the crown for themselves, plus there's Quote and Curly's creator and whatever factions backed him/her. Over 90% of the suspect list wouldn't have even been mentioned in the game, let alone seen.

EDIT:
1) There is no evidence that the island was created. But Jenka moved to the island when she imprisoned Ballos there, so it is safe to assume that she lived of the surface before then.
2) If Jenka raised the island from the ground then it would have its own native wildlife, same for if the island wasn't created but already existed. The island was used to imprison Ballos, but it would have existed in one way or form before being used as such.
3) Yes.
4) Yes.
5) There's no real evidence to suggest this. And ten years isn't exactly what I would call "quickly".
6) We have no idea what King's relationship with Arthur is, besides him taking care of Toroko and the naming theme between them.
7) This is my theory:
Miakid was sent by the governments to take the crown. During the taking of the island some event sparked an all out slaughter of Mimigas and any Humans that got in the way. The adult Mimigas injested the red flowers, became feral, and defeated the robots. However Miakid, the leader of the expedition, got his hands on the crown. He betrayed the government he worked for and took the crown for his own needs. Suddenly he had the power to control enraged Mimigas along with plenty of enraged Mimigas to play around with (the ones that fought the robots) and uses them to wage war. Quote and Curly, having failed to destroy the crown, take on Miakid and lose. At some point Miakid dies.
The attack on the core was either a deliberate attempt to kill Miakid by the government entities he used to work for, or they simply got stuck in the room with the core like Quote and Curly.
8) They were created to destroy the crown, yes. And they are also of better design than most robot soldiers.
9) There's no real evidence for or against it. But ask yourself, under that logic why did Quote save Curly?
10) As I said, it could be anyone. More than likely someone outside the scope of the game.
11) They were likely after all of the Sakamotos.
12) I believe that Cthulthu are remnants of the war, but Gero and Hasumi would likely recognise what you were if they were involved back then.
13) This is my theory:
The core confines Ballos' magic. Red flowers and the crown get their magic powers from Ballos. When the core is destroyed the magic returns to Ballos, red flower states are reverted, the Doctor's red crystal body dies, and Ballos uses his power to drag the island to the ground.
14) Exactly. And to be fair the core does stop the island from falling (however indirectly), it just doesn't make it float.
15) It's implied that the Polar Star belonged to Tetsuzou and not Quote.

 

Suddenly another theory came up - maybe Cthulu is the creater of Quote and Curly?

 

Suddenly another theory came up - maybe Cthulu is the creater of Quote and Curly?

If you were serious, then. No.

 

as far as quote and curly goes, I've had speculation that they were humans before they were robots, starting riots and protests on the surface to stop sending the killers to the island. Someone saw their potential, and tweaked their personalities to literally complete each other.

When you look at quote as a character, he is often perfectionistic and meloncholy, not too often cheery or optimistic. He has traits that make him good, but can also lead to his own downfall. Curly, on the other hand, is optimistic, standoffish, and often jumps the gun, these two personalities put together as a team creates a great force. Apparentally, if my theory is true, someone saw that in them and just made them stronger to defeat the core, if not, do something so much more.

 

I am very doubtfula of that. I think they were built from scratch, not humans made into cyborgs.

 

The only question I really have is to the nature of red flowers. As in for what reason arthur has so many, I know he fought red demon, but he has SO much. Secondly, what part of the flower effects the mimiga (maybe oils on the stem?) . Finally why they were locked in the safe house, I know it was for protection but do they grow naturally? how could they be distilled into a crystal?

 

1. There is no apparent connection between the Red Demob and the Red Flowers.
2. The petals. That's why they couldn't eat them until they were fully grown.
3. Didn't you listen to Jenka? Go replay Sand Zone.
4. A wizard did it.

 

Thank you though no. 3 still wasn't quite answered

 

It was to "prevent such a tragedy from happening again."
But replaying Sand Zone is the best way to get that answer.