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Ballos things

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Sep 17, 2017 at 1:00 AM
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#1
so if ballos made that crown thing why was balrog affected? he just seemed like a random little (big) guy that had no magical stuff

also a more important question: Could ballos have made infinite of those crowns? What stopped him from creating like 90 of them, spreading them to a bunch of humans and then it's a million times harder for quote to stop them..?
just curious, I want my game to make some sense
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 1:44 AM
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#2
misery made the crown, and after she did she was cursed by it, so she probably couldn't make more. jenka and misery are born witches, and probably have a different kind of power than ballos, a human wizard
balrog was probably misery's friend or something so the crown got him too?
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 3:15 AM
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#3
misery made the crown, and after she did she was cursed by it, so she probably couldn't make more. jenka and misery are born witches, and probably have a different kind of power than ballos, a human wizard
balrog was probably misery's friend or something so the crown got him too?
i thought misery asked ballos to make the crown? and then she was "subsequently cursed"

also jenka and ballos are brother/sister, not sure about the difference between wizard and witch though
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 5:11 AM
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#4
dang you're right sorry about that pal
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 12:12 PM
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#5
Sep 17, 2017 at 1:25 PM
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#6
i guess but why? ballos went mad under torture and had his powers forcibly drawn out, as far as i know he didn't actually want to be a dick
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 1:44 PM
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#7
i guess but why? ballos went mad under torture and had his powers forcibly drawn out, as far as i know he didn't actually want to be a dick
oh i thought after the whole crazy thing he just decided to be evil and also wanted to die for some reason
but was the island also falling? was ballos making it fall and the core needed to balance it out?
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 4:03 PM
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#8
The crown is tied to Ballos' magic. In theory the more crowns there are the weaker each crown's power would be. Also I should note that Ballos has no direct control over his magic, so I really doubt that he intended to curse Misery.

The going theory is that the core is a suppressor or counterbalance to Ballos. It doesn't make the island float, since the island clearly floats by other means, it simply stops it from falling. I won't go into detail because I have explained this one far too many times over the years.
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 5:57 PM
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#9
The crown is tied to Ballos' magic. In theory the more crowns there are the weaker each crown's power would be. Also I should note that Ballos has no direct control over his magic, so I really doubt that he intended to curse Misery.

The going theory is that the core is a suppressor or counterbalance to Ballos. It doesn't make the island float, since the island clearly floats by other means, it simply stops it from falling. I won't go into detail because I have explained this one far too many times over the years.
oh

so I'm trying to make a secret ending and a normal ending in my mod
I have the guy(guys) that you hear about a lot throughout the mod, and you battle them at the end but they aren't the ACTUAL final boss (just like the doctor)
So I'm thinking i still need some sort of boss after the "doctor" (it won't be the doctor)
and then I need the secret ending
maybe even a SUPER secret ending
I'm not sure which ballos should be though, either the secret or end of the normal ending. (not super secret, not even sure about that)
I just want to find some sort of way that makes sense of how ballos can come alive again, or somehow left a bunch of things to destroy the world before he died



also is the reason the island floats after ballos is gone is because ballos stops making it fall, the core stops counteracting ballos's stuff, and so since the island floats on its' own, and there are no forces its all good?
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 9:00 PM
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#10
yes
 
Sep 17, 2017 at 9:09 PM
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#11
thx
do you think it would be ok if i made the normal ending a bunch of those crowns being created?
Would that make sense if like 9 of them were made, and somehow quote destroys them all? (you won't be fightning 9 doctors)
maybe people will say the "normal" bad guy made them, but in reality it was ballos again
I don't know how to say how he got back alive again.
any ideas
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 12:05 AM
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#12
.....so does anyone have any idea how somehow i could explain how ballos got alive again
I've heard different things like the demon crown makes him alive, or he's immortal or other weird things

or do you think i should just keep him gone, but maybe he did something before he was gone?
I don't really want to just introduce a random new ultimate villain....
Considering Ballos' presence, or at least the crown's presence, at some point, somebody else must have come to the island with similar intentions likewise to Date. Have this person be inspired by the actions Date/Ballos commit, have this character attempt to justify Date's actions no matter how outlandish, have the other characters in the story see him as a bumbling idiot at first but as the game progresses when this character starts gaining powers and have it be from a possibly weaker demon crown. Let's assume for a moment Ballos had a backup plan and intends not to use Misery, but instead his own sister Jenka as a slave, hoping that this enslavement will prevent her from doing anything to stop him, you can make up the second slave but make sure they're an established character and has a foreboding presence like possibly the Cthulhu guys, if you want to go the fictional route with an entirely new character, make sure they're written and developed well. With this contingency plan being put into effect, this puts the new villain in the forefront as the new crown holder, and thus can wreck havoc once he attains told power from the crown say 70-80% through the game, and have his build up of powers leave him stunned in bewilderment and amazement whenever he discovers a new power or uses one successfully.

As the game drags on, begin to give this character a gradual deterioration of his sanity and once the crown fully takes him over and allows full access of the new powers he can go insane and basically morph into the new doctor from there, possibly having several encounters with him being both the puppet master and the puppet since Ballos is dead, the reason the crown exists despite Ballos' death is up to you, I wouldn't know myself how to do it without making up some excuse like "the crown's power pursues long after death", think it hard through and make sure it's a good idea. You don't have to use my idea if you feel it's too bland, what I have down is a rough outline, if you want some elaboration please contact me.
 
Last edited:
Sep 18, 2017 at 1:31 AM
Spur is the best gun because its super cool
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#13
Considering Ballos' presence, or at least the crown's presence, at some point, somebody else must have come to the island with similar intentions likewise to Date. Have this person be inspired by the actions Date/Ballos commit, have this character attempt to justify Date's actions no matter how outlandish, have the other characters in the story see him as a bumbling idiot at first but as the game progresses when this character starts gaining powers and have it be from a possibly weaker demon crown. Let's assume for a moment Ballos had a backup plan and intends not to use Misery, but instead his own sister Jenka as a slave, hoping that this enslavement will prevent her from doing anything to stop him, you can make up the second slave but make sure they're an established character and has a foreboding presence like possibly the Cthulhu guys, if you want to go the fictional route with an entirely new character, make sure they're written and developed well. With this contingency plan being put into effect, this puts the new villain in the forefront as the new crown holder, and thus can wreck havoc once he attains told power from the crown say 70-80% through the game, and have his build up of powers leave him stunned in bewilderment and amazement whenever he discovers a new power or uses one successfully.

As the game drags on, begin to give this character a gradual deterioration of his sanity and once the crown fully takes him over and allows full access of the new powers he can go insane and basically morph into the new doctor from there, possibly having several encounters with him being both the puppet master and the puppet since Ballos is dead, the reason the crown exists despite Ballos' death is up to you, I wouldn't know myself how to do it without making up some excuse like "the crown's power pursues long after death", think it hard through and make sure it's a good idea. You don't have to use my idea if you feel it's too bland, what I have down is a rough outline, if you want some elaboration please contact me.
I really like that idea of a guy who doesn't even seem like a threat at the beginning but turns evil at the end
Maybe he'll have some scenes randomly throughout like kazuma had. I should also add more "happy" scenes in my game. Maybe i'll add someone else, like a critter you have to free. It's hard to have so many characters, the creator of cave story really did a good job with all of the people

my thought was that maybe ballos had created only one other crown in secret (they should take a lot of magic to make or something), and then this new guy finds the new hidden crown
That'll be the final ending for the normal way
im not sure about the secret ending though, and maybe the super secret ending will just be fight the ballos boss (won't be ballos) like 3 times in a row like that mimiga army game just because its super secret and it'll be really hard to beat. Somehow that ending should also be even better, maybe save someone (i dont really want any characters to die in mine. It's hard to create characters, and I don't want to kill the old ones)

So the secret ending will be about as hard to get as the original secret ending in cave story, but the super secret will be even HARDER and somehow an even better ending? maybe you just get recognition from the whole earth or something, because i dont want the "regular" secret ending to be bad

man i just realized how many good characters there were in cave story. I haven't even put balrog, kazuma, itoh or momorin(those two are at the end anyways though) into my game yet, and barely even sue.


honestly though so far it seems like in my game you're just wandering around and finding clues to things whereas in the other game you actually have goals and purposes throughout (except the very beginning)
 
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Sep 18, 2017 at 1:37 AM
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#14
Ballos just wanted to die. Anything that didn't push that agenda wasn't worth his time. Misery likely got Ballos to create the crown because she probably had next to no magic of her own (note the lack of levitation in the ending, of course I am making an assumption here), and Ballos had heaps of magic that he didn't want (the magic that was stopping him from dying). It would have been a fair trade, if it wasn't for the corrupt nature of Ballos' magic.
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 2:18 AM
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#15
Ballos just wanted to die. Anything that didn't push that agenda wasn't worth his time. Misery likely got Ballos to create the crown because she probably had next to no magic of her own (note the lack of levitation in the ending, of course I am making an assumption here), and Ballos had heaps of magic that he didn't want (the magic that was stopping him from dying). It would have been a fair trade, if it wasn't for the corrupt nature of Ballos' magic.
just curious do you have any names for a bumbling sort of guy?
Maybe I don't need his name, as the date guy was just called the Doctor
maybe then a nickname or whatever his job is?

also got any ideas for a drawing or a name of a friendly sort of guy? I'm trying to incorporate kazuma and balrog in my game to. Toroko and king are already gone though, so I've left them out and maybe i'll replace them with some characters.
I'm not even sure about the whole red flower thing.
Maybe I'll put this in my mod or somewhere where the download link is:

NOTICE: IF ANY PARTS IN THIS GAME MAKE NO SENSE IN RELATION TO THE ORIGINAL CAVE STORY, PLEASE JUST IGNORE IT AND ENJOY THE GAME FOR IT'S GAMEPLAY, RATHER THAN THE STORYLINE AND STUFF.
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 4:39 AM
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#16
Merik for the friendly guy.

The red flowers are likely tied to Ballos' magic, given they can be controlled by the crown.
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 5:21 AM
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#17
For the Villain I was thinking "Hibiki Shita" which has Hibiki stand for echo in Japanese and Shita mean below. Both can be inferred that this villain is after the Doctor but weaker due to his more kind nature, thus an echo which is weaker with every time it comes back. And to have below be this villain is below the Doctor and was possibly working under Date at some point, I can see that being a plot point where this villain worked under Date and the villain finds out about the demon crown through Date. So when he comes to the island and finds out Date was killed, he wants to exempt revenge and become the echo of the Doctor.
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 1:16 PM
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#18
you really oughta not ask people to ignore parts of your content you expect to be bad. how are you gonna improve without feedback?
 
Sep 18, 2017 at 9:52 PM
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#19
Merik for the friendly guy.

The red flowers are likely tied to Ballos' magic, given they can be controlled by the crown.
Thanks for the name!
So would it make sense that somehow the red flowers were back? I haven't included them in my story anyways. WAIT JUST GOT A GREAT IDEA I wont say it now because i dont want to spoil it if you ever play

ALSO DO YOU THINK A GOOD NAME FOR THE BAD GUY is ONe of these:
Mashimoto
Chiura
Sakurai
OR SEE BELOW

Or maybe at the beginning I shuold have him be called something like "jack" or "bob" but later have him called the "Crown Bearer" or something like that to make him seem like he was going insane
like first he calls himself that simple name, but later he calls himself the Crown bearer to make it all creepy and stuff

I just looked up "Random japanese names" so please don't think i'm i dont even know..


wait i just read that coldcaller guys thing Hibiki does sound like a good name! It seems simple, kind of fun but can turn EVILL and stuff
I think thats a really good idea coldcallerloopy thanks!

you really oughta not ask people to ignore parts of your content you expect to be bad. how are you gonna improve without feedback?
sorry its just I'm not going to go back and spend 5 hours fixing things if my whole storyline ends up being absolutely flawed
I will improve small things though!!!

MAIN QUESTIONS:

ALSO WHERE CAN I PUT BALROG OR KAZUMA? I really don't know how to animate balrog like they do in jenkas nightmare, they really made him a great character in that with all the animatinos and the great text
kazuma just not sure about him, i want him to have a purpose but maybe not...


I JUST THINK I NEED ONE MORE THING TO FINISH THE MAIN PART OF THE STORYLINE
How will I make sense about why the island is falling again and needs the core to balance it out again? It may sound confusing, but I just need a reason for it to be falling without the core (I know it floats naturally)
I'd prefer is ballos would stay gone too...
Also who even created the core?

Thank you all, sorry if my post was a LITTLE CRAZY
I'm just so excited to make this and have the big storyline and good stuffsssss
I hope if I ever do release it (and everything doesn't just fail) then you'll all enjoy it!
I'm trying to make it about as long as the original cave story, or maybe just a tiny bit longer




Most mods seem to be unfinished
then the rest are just short
then a few of the good ones are good length, maybe a tiny bit shorter than the original cave story
and then jenkas nightmare which is like 5 months of gameplay
I mean I'm not going for jenkas nightmare length, but maybe somewhere around the original cave story's length
everything is kind of in order though. I don't really have people to "Test" my thing, so I can't really have everything loop around without spending tons of time on every possibility. I don't have the free time like that creator guy did, nor 5 years (he did design a ton of stuff though which probably took 4 years)

OK THATS IT Ive typed enough please read all especially the main questions!
 
Sep 19, 2017 at 3:13 AM
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#20
Ballos causes the island to fall, but Ballos' power is suppressed by the core. I suspect that either his desire to die manifests as "lets ram the island into the ground", or his magic naturally negates the island's natural ability to levitate. Take your pick.

The core was probably created by Jenka.
 
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