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Weapons and Reality

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Dec 29, 2013 at 6:27 AM
Melon Lord
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#1
Cave Theory Time!
So, Polaris and I had a little discussion about the weight and nature of Cave Story weapons. For reference, I used real life weapons and we came up with our own ideas about how they could possibly work in the future. Assuming CS takes place in the future considering I don't have my own Quote Robot in real life right now.
So, we're just going to do this in the order of weapons we discussed, starting with...
The Weapons
The Rocket Launcher
To note, I used the average RPG-7 as a reference for the actual launcher itself, weighing in at 15 pounds. The actual ammo of the thing can be anwhere from 2.0 to 4.5 Kilograms. To be even, I supposed they were about 3.5 Kilos (7.7 Pounds) each.
So quite possibly, Quote is carrying over 770 Pounds of equipment just by the Rocket Launcher and a max ammo count of 100.
Though, there is the more likely situation that you're carrying the Super Missile Launcher, which has a maximum of 54 Missiles, to my knowledge. Considering these Missiles probably have more materials and such to give the extra oomph and damage, we can say they're about 4.5 Kilos (9.9 Pounds), so by the time he gets to Hell, he's carrying about 550 Pounds worth of Missile Launcher and Ammo right there.
Also most RPG-7's are around Three Feet long. Seems the Missile Launcher is about the same length, or a bit shorter.
The Polar Star
I chose to compare the gun to that of a Colt Python .357 Magnum Revolver, since it is structurally similar to it. They weigh about 1.1 Kilos (2.42 Pounds). It just does seem to shoot 'traditional' rounds with no bells and whistles to distinguish it.
The Spur
Considering it looks radically different to its unfinished form, we can assume the Spur is made of sturdier and heavier stuff, considering the thing can still hold together while firing giant energy beams. The extra weight and possible length could make it round out to somewhere in the 3~4 pound range.
It's also been theorized that the actual cylinder is actually some sort of indicator of the charging feature of the gun and the possible intensity of shooting Level 1, 2, and 3 lasers, in a gauge similar to the EXP bar. Note how in the game, you can only shoot one laser at a time before shooting another. We can also say the cylinder applies to the regular Polar Star, considering you can only shoot two level 3 shots on-screen before shooting more.
The Bubbler
While traditional plastic bubble guns are around 1.40 Pounds, it has to be known that the Bubbler itself is made of sturdier stuff, considering it survived being in a fireplace for who knows how long. I'm assuming the contents of the little storage/tube it has has some weight to it, if it actually does shoot bubbles. Then again, if it can recharge ammo without some sort of extra substance to it, maybe it's just energy that is weightless.
King's Sword
Comparing the official art with several different kinds, we've assumed that King's Sword is actually a Roman Gladius. Those weight anywhere from 2.6~3.5 Pounds have a blade about two feet long. King may be strong enough to take down or subdue Balrog in one hit, but he can't really wield something as long as an Arming Sword, or a Knight's Sword, which may be a bit lighter at 2.4 Pounds, but have a blade that is averaged at 2.8 Feet long. Though, the length may or may not be irrelevant considering there is no real exact height to a Mimiga (to my knowledge). Though, if we take this at face value, the entire sword is half of King's height.
The Machine Gun
Looking at the size of the gun in Pixel's official art, the Machine Gun looks to be a bit larger than an AK47, which can weigh up to 8.7 pounds. Though, Japanese Type 11, 96, and 99 Light Machine Guns weigh, on average, 9.5 Pounds. We're using the Bubbler Ammo theory and just assume the bullets are made of energy, since there doesn't seem to be an ammo belt or cartridge.
Well that's all Polaris and I had discussed about before stopping. I'm curious to see your comments and thoughts on this stuff, along with the weapons we didn't cover and all the other items Quote can carry around with him.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 6:49 AM
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#2
i personally think everything that the polar star, machine gun, blade, and spur shoot light, i mean, most ammo happens to be white, so maybe theyre shooting light in such a way it damages things... and if quote was throwing the actual blade, how could he get it back instantly?

anyways, about that blade, people have assumed that quote might be a meter tall (3 ft?) and i personally think that hes 4'11 (bout the height of a 10-year-old boy), and mimigas are his size, so thatd be a 2'5 blade he's carrying, which seems right.
another thing is that its called the blade; blades are usually short so i'd think around 1 foot long... oh, and the blades not even visible on quotes sprite, so it must be short enough to where its not shown at all, so maybe its longer then a dagger but shorter then a sword?

the bubbler may be like the FLUDD from mario sunshine, except it absorbs air and condenses them into water because it was in that fireplace for so long... obviously, it could do that.

also, the rocket launcher is very unique in its own way, as it levels up the missiles get wider, and at level 3 it shoots 3 fat missiles for the price of 1... how heavy would that be?! jeez...

as for the nemesis, its literally loaded with infinite ducks, but since its the 'gun of the lightning goddess' she turns those into lightning bolts, making it very light in retrospect.

the fireball would be light with a heavy end, because it has to shoot air out of itself to make fireballs (like a flame thrower but in short bursts) that, and it has to withstand 4 1,300 degrees celsius worth of fireballs, so...

and the snake is simply gaudi magic.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 6:55 AM
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#3
The Missile Launcher is the heaviest of the heaviest, it seems. I knew it will be an overkill.

I wonder what will you say about the Fireball and Snake. These two are really interesting!

Great job in overall!
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM
Okay I give up... for now
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#4
All right, let's crunch all these numbers together. I'm going to assume that Quote has the Spur, Super Missile Launcher, Bubbler, Blade, and Fireball. I'm going to load Quote with 30 missiles because while he can canonically reach 54, there's a good portion of the game spent with 30, and it's only during that time that he has access to all the areas. He's trapped in Hell by the time he gets 54.

JonSpider said:
I used the average RPG-7 as a reference for the actual launcher itself, weighing in at 15 pounds... Considering these [super] Missiles probably have more materials and such to give the extra oomph and damage, we can say they're about 4.5 Kilos (9.9[x30] Pounds)... The Spur... The extra weight and possible length could make it round out to somewhere in the 3~4 pound range... The Bubbler... 1.40 (+x?) Pounds... We've assumed that King's Sword is actually a Roman Gladius. Those weight anywhere from 2.6~3.5 Pounds.
For the values you were unsure about, I'm taking the average of your estimated minimums and maximums. I've also taken the liberty of adding an extra pound to your estimation of the Bubbler's weight, as you yourself said it's likely heavier than that. So let's see here:

15 + (9.9 x 30) + 3.5 + 2.4 + 3.05 = 320.95

You also haven't given us an estimation on the fireball, so in my possible scenario, Quote would still be even a bit heavier. And that's not even counting all the items he'd have in his inventory by this point. That's also not counting the weight of Quote himself. I'm going to assume that Quote is 70 pounds. Even if Quote's lighter than that, there's still the items in his inventory to cushion this assumption. So that's 390.95 pounds.

So, by that logic, the fans in Grasstown can easily blow 390.95 pounds up into the air. Those upward flowing streams in Labyrinth M that let you get back up to an earlier point in the stage even if you don't have a Booster or leveled up machine gun apparently can easily carry 390.95 pounds. Some of those platforms on the Outer Wall are suspended out in the open and only supported by a single thin beam. Given the amount of leverage you'd have on the support beams, as well as the weight the platforms themselves, it seems they wouldn't be that stable, and would break off. But according to gameplay and our collaborative estimations, those platforms can support 390.95 pounds. Not only that, but it could also remain still even if Quote applies extra force to the platform by boosting downward on it. Even then, the platform remains sturdy. Also by this logic, Midorins can easily support 390.95 pounds and not be slowed down when they're carrying you on their heads. In fact, they're apparently so strong that they can easily send a 390.95-pound object flying through the air just by running into it. The odd thing is, even if you have no missile launcher and have much less stuff such that you're much lighter, the extent to which Quote gets supported by the Grasstown fans, upward streams in Labyrinth M, and Midorins doesn't change at all.

This leads me to four possible conclusions:

1. Your beliefs about the weights of the weapons are wrong. They're actually much lighter than that. Also possibly Quote himself is much lighter than my estimated 70 pounds.

2. Quote has some supernatural ability to decrease the weight of himself and his equipment at will.

3. The fans, streams, Outer Wall support beam material, and Midorins are so insanely strong that there's little difference between supporting/hauling a ~70-pound object and a 390-pound object. You'd have to get to about 1000 pounds to see a difference in how easily fans, streams, and Midorins carry and knock around objects.

4. The island is so high up in the air that anything on it is not affected as much by earth's gravity, and therefore objects of great mass don't weigh as much, and therefore Quote with all his equipment weighs significantly less than 390 pounds on the island. This is highly unlikely though, considering that the island has an atmosphere which is conveniently sustainable for humans, and also that you are still in the clouds and see the sun and moon shining on you. Then again, when the island starts falling to the earth, those stones that fall onto the Balcony could be stones supporting something up higher that became detached from their structure because they started getting heavier due to getting closer to earth and being affected more by its gravity. Who knows?
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 6:13 PM
Melon Lord
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#5
So, I decided to just up and make scales of all the weapons and Quote himself, along with a rough estimate of his body/skeleton/frame/whatever you would call it. Take a look.
From what I know, a single pixel is about 0.01 Inches long (Using this website as reference.) So if we were to measure Quote's body (Cave Story+) height and convert the following inches (0.36 Inches) to feet, we get about 4.32 Tall and 2.88 Wide. So Quote is roughly 4'3". Compare that to the average Japanese Male, (5'7") the average US Male (5'9") and you Canadian folk (5'8.5").

Checking the average height of a 10 year-old living in the U.S., Quote is somewhere between the 10th Percentile (51.4 Inches) and the 25th Percentile (52.9 Inches). His look varies between games, but if we took the 'official' and 'canon' depiction by Pixel himself, he does look about as young as he is tall.

Also I suppose he just has big shoes and a big hat, because his entire outfit makes him out to be about 4'9" according to my calculations.

And it turns out Curly is actually the taller one, being a single pixel higher than him. This makes her out to be 4'4". I suppose he likes taller women :L

While I know this seems silly and all, I suppose now I can try determining the size of a Mimiga and all...though, I'm pretty sure Momorin, Sue's Brother, the Doctor, and Ballos would turn out to be absolute giants. Then again, this game does take place in the future, probably, and it has been confirmed that humans in general are getting taller throughout history.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 7:14 PM
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#6
HaydenStudios said:
[...] I'm going to assume that Quote is 70 pounds. [...]
but, wait! if quote was, indeed, 70 pounds, wouldn't he atleast have better mobility in water? in the game, he sinks like a stone! unless he's made out of very light material that has a greater density then water, he cant possibly be 70 pounds! and he does this before getting any weapons or items, either... he also has trouble jumping out of places where the water is just touching his hand thats closest to us (in cs+ atleast).
theres also one more thing to address: if quote is much heavier then 70 pounds (due to the dense material hes made out of...?), then how is he able to jump 3x his height? assuming he's 4'3, that'd be 12'9 feet in the air he can jump! i dont think even having spring shoes would help him in that case, as they wouldnt support his weight, either. (note: i dont know what density's relationship to weight is, so im assuming)
and... if hard mode quote really is a human (since he has human-tone skin, blonde hair (which is what most people w/ blue eyes have) and a shine in his eyes), he'd have to carry around 70-or-so pounds of stuff with him, and still be able to jump 3x his height.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 7:51 PM
Melon Lord
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#7
HaydenStudios said:
That's also not counting the weight of Quote himself. I'm going to assume that Quote is 70 pounds. Even if Quote's lighter than that, there's still the items in his inventory to cushion this assumption. So that's 390.95 pounds.
Well Hayden, it turns out your guess was pretty darn accurate. If we are to go with the average height and weight of a 10-year old Boy in general, he has to be 70.4 Pounds. A healthy weight. Though, his actual strength and weight in-game varies. He is an Android/Robot, not an actual human. Well, least if we are talking about Vanilla CS.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 7:52 PM
Okay I give up... for now
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#8
Kayya said:
but, wait! if quote was, indeed, 70 pounds, wouldn't he atleast have better mobility in water? in the game, he sinks like a stone! unless he's made out of very light material that has a greater density then water, he cant possibly be 70 pounds! and he does this before getting any weapons or items, either... he also has trouble jumping out of places where the water is just touching his hand thats closest to us (in cs+ atleast).
theres also one more thing to address: if quote is much heavier then 70 pounds (due to the dense material hes made out of...?), then how is he able to jump 3x his height? assuming he's 4'3, that'd be 12'9 feet in the air he can jump! i dont think even having spring shoes would help him in that case, as they wouldnt support his weight, either. (note: i dont know what density's relationship to weight is, so im assuming)
and... if hard mode quote really is a human (since he has human-tone skin, blonde hair (which is what most people w/ blue eyes have) and a shine in his eyes), he'd have to carry around 70-or-so pounds of stuff with him, and still be able to jump 3x his height.
You appear to be challenging my assumption that Quote weighs 70 pounds, but I'm having trouble determining whether you're suggesting I shot too high or too low. Quote and Curly appear to be modeled after 10-year-old humans of their respective genders, and given how amazingly well-built they are such that they could easily pass as abnormally pale humans with antennas, I surmised that their weight was another attribute that matched their human counterparts. I decided on 70 pounds because after a quick Google search, that's what I saw was the average weight of a 10-year-old boy. Obviously this train of thought isn't flawless, but it's the best I've got.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 8:14 PM
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#9
HaydenStudios said:
You appear to be challenging my assumption that Quote weighs 70 pounds, but I'm having trouble determining whether you're suggesting I shot too high or too low. Quote and Curly appear to be modeled after 10-year-old humans of their respective genders, and given how amazingly well-built they are such that they could easily pass as abnormally pale humans with antennas, I surmised that their weight was another attribute that matched their human counterparts. I decided on 70 pounds because after a quick Google search, that's what I saw was the average weight of a 10-year-old boy. Obviously this train of thought isn't flawless, but it's the best I've got.
i meant you shot too low, because if he was 70 pounds and made of decently light material, he'd float and not sink. now, if he was made out of heavy material, he wouldnt look any different, minus the weight issue.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 8:51 PM
Okay I give up... for now
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#10
Kayya said:
i meant you shot too low, because if he was 70 pounds and made of decently light material, he'd float and not sink. now, if he was made out of heavy material, he wouldnt look any different, minus the weight issue.
I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying, so I'm going to have to ask you to be more clear.
 
Dec 29, 2013 at 11:49 PM
Alfa
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#11
What she means is that Quote would float and not sink if he were 70 pounds, so he should weigh more. If he were made of heavier materials, he would look no different from a 10-year old, and he would sink like a stone like he does in the game.

...personally I think 70 pounds is 70 pounds, regardless of materials, and I'm pretty sure that weight sinks. I'm not sure, I'm probably wrong. But whatever.


...um...anyway! I have some of the Skype conversation here if you'd like to read it. ^_^

Too bad I stole it from Jon and he cut it off after a while. I think there was a bit more after that, but he must have had some reason. I don't think it was anything necessary.
 
Dec 31, 2013 at 3:02 AM
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#12
Quote is a robot strong enough to pull malock out when he was stuck in the floor. He also has incredibly bad bouyancy and can jump 3 times his hight, it probably doesn'matter how much he ways other than the fact that the ground bellow him doesn't collapse, that the floating island that he's on does'nt fall right out of the sky, and that balrog's head doesn't get crushed in while he's carrying him on the journey away from the island...

What ever he's made out of, I want some of it to make a mechanical horse.
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 12:53 PM
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#13
Personally I believe that the Fireball's projectiles aren't actually fire. They just resemble fire, hence the name. Fire usually doesn't bounce and the Fireball would realistically have set Grasstown alight when used if it actually was fire.
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 5:59 PM
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#14
I wonder how Mario's fireballs work, then?
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 6:17 PM
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#15
How can he become a stone statue by wearing a raccoon suit? How can he become a giant by eating a mushroom? How can he fly? How can he become invincible by touching a star?
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 7:02 PM
Melon Lord
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#16
andwhyisit said:
Personally I believe that the Fireball's projectiles aren't actually fire. They just resemble fire, hence the name. Fire usually doesn't bounce and the Fireball would realistically have set Grasstown alight when used if it actually was fire.
Thankfully, here's an artist's depiction of just what an actural Fireball gun would do on a place like Grasstown.
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 9:19 PM
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#17
Except that's the Super Missile Launcher. Why does everyone think that's the Fireball? ._.

I do agree that the Fireball might not shoot actual fire. Maybe it's the same Not-Fireballs that Mario shoots. Hm...
 
Jan 1, 2014 at 9:57 PM
Melon Lord
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#18
Polaris said:
Except that's the Super Missile Launcher. Why does everyone think that's the Fireball? ._.

I do agree that the Fireball might not shoot actual fire. Maybe it's the same Not-Fireballs that Mario shoots. Hm...
Well at least you could tell easily. The Fireball is actually the smallest gun Quote has in his arsenal....maybe another reason why players never really used it much.

It's gotta be made of something that can change color at least. I mean, Level 3 is just level 2, but with an added fireball and a blue coloring to it.
 
Jan 3, 2014 at 4:54 AM
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#19
JonSpider said:
Well at least you could tell easily. The Fireball is actually the smallest gun Quote has in his arsenal....maybe another reason why players never really used it much.

It's gotta be made of something that can change color at least. I mean, Level 3 is just level 2, but with an added fireball and a blue coloring to it.
I find this odd, because I personally like the Fireball and because its very usefule against a lot of things in cavestory
(grasstown, Balfrog, curly, omega, tokoro, the 2nd version of the last cave, and the red demon)
 
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