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We gotta Vary Shit Up

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Jan 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
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#1
Okay so, this has been bugging me, and like any rasonable person who can't fall asleep I'm making a thread about it.

So I've taken the time to notice that all Cave Story mods follow the same format. You adventure place to place with maybe some plot and get new guns, OR super gimmicky trail like Hell 3000 or another boss trail. Point being some variety is in order.

I don't really expect much from new users as it's the first inclination when making a mod for the first time, but some of us who have been around for awhile and quit a bunch of projects should try this. I put some thought into what would be easier to do in the CS modding format, "meaning the most complex thing is using premade assembly hacks" and came up with a few ideas as to what would be cool to see people make.

Roguelikes, with the VAR hack by Noxid are totally possible. With some clever TSC you can pick a random room when going into another room and construct a small dungeon randomly. You can also pick random guns and enemies as long as they're sensibly picked.

Exploration games. You played FEZ? Cause that's as simple as you can get. Go across a giant world with tons of paths and minimal npcs. Collect a bunch of items to beat the game, or even cleverly hide upgrades and put up soft locks requiring them in a metroid style and beat a final boss.

Mega Man style. Pick a level, go do stuff and beat bosses then go to final level. I can't believe no one's done this already. If they have, link me to it please.

Anything with a dark world. Make a tileset, make a darkworld version of it, and use checkpoints or whatever so people can go between them at certain points and make changes. You could make a puzzle game with the structure of portal or a giant open game like link to the past.

I could go on, but I think you get it. I really want to see people try making mods like this instead of trying to be another Cave Story, at least those that we CAN expect it from. Hopefully one person will read this and try something new out.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 10:50 AM
Hyperbolic
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#2
I'd say the problem is that a thread in the SPOT got much more support than a great mod sometimes.
As for variety we had that mod about a pink haired lesbian killing religious fanatics OR Kurai's Sorajima Monogatari. Both were different but the forums gave them way too little support.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 10:58 AM
Lvl 1
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#3
As for variety we had that mod about a pink haired lesbian killing religious fanatics OR Kurai's Sorajima Monogatari. Both were different but the forums gave them way too little support.
Mods have to be able to stand on their own if they're to be successful. If you're modding for popularity or need support, then you probably shouldn't be modding in the first place since mods will generally get you neither.

Anyways I'd say the problem with the lack of "quality" mods is that there's just no real incentive to make them. I'm not sure if there ever was, but the modding section seemed more popular/alive at least when I first joined.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 11:20 AM
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#4
The mod a friend and I have been working on slowly is essentially a metroidvania style game. I'm prototyping the basic format and plan to release a very short mod to see if the general gameplay style (heavy on the backtracking and poking every wall, floor tile, etc. for secrets) translates well to cave story. If that's already been done and I don't even have to bother with the prototype, I'd love to know about the mod that did it so I can see if what we're planning works out.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 3:58 PM
Not anymore
"Run, rabbit run. Dig that hole, forget the sun."
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#5
Mods have to be able to stand on their own if they're to be successful. If you're modding for popularity or need support, then you probably shouldn't be modding in the first place since mods will generally get you neither.
This. Definitely this.

Some people get really pissed when everybody harshly criticizes their mod, or just don't post in their mod thread.
However, you should mod for fun and not for fame. Pixel implied (using Hermit gunsmith dialogue) that even if only one person played his game, he would be 100% satisfied, because he made one person happier by making a great game called Doukutsu Monogatari.

EDIT: HyMyNameIsMatt I'll try to take your advice into account for my own projects.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 5:21 PM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
Location: Greener Pastures
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Age: 25
#6
I don't know how this turned into modding for a crowd and modding for yourself, but all I have to say on that is maybe people will enjoy a mod that's different and offers something new just a bit more. And modding is something you totally do for yourself. If you aren't dedicated enough to finish, I recomend starting off small, but that's just me.

Milayu, Cave STory Redesign was the closest we got to a Metroidvania. It doesn't really follow the format of guiding you subtle where you have to go because ti follows Cave Story's plot, but alot of elements are still there. Basically if you're doing a metroidvania use tons of soft lock and almost no hard locks. soft locks being things you can't get past without an ability, hard locks being things you can't get past without a flag being activated or having a 1 time key to use. Because breaking soft looks is cool and fun and sequence breaky.

Happy to see that a few people are going to try out some different styles or organizations of gameplay.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 5:34 PM
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#7
I would disagree Matt. I don't think it's a Metroidvania at all. It doesn't feel like a Metroidvania.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 5:50 PM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
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#8
I wouldn't say it is either. I said it was as close as we've gotten to it.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 7:13 PM
Tommy Thunder
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#9
I actually really like the Dark World concept you brought up. I feel that it would work especially well in the mod I'm making. Not as extensive as the entire game, but maybe a large area, just to mix things up.
 
Jan 14, 2013 at 11:51 PM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
Location: Greener Pastures
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#10
If anyone rememebers The Village of the Blue Maiden from 4 Swords, that was an awesome dark world level.
 
Jan 15, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Hyperbolic
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#11
I've never modded for popularity. What I was implying is that after talking about so much about Cave Story, playing it and playing so much mods, it is harder to (at least in my case) please yourself or others with the outcome and therefore keeping up the motive to continue working on the project. Modding can sometimes be hard, and a motive is needed. I stopped modding partly because I've got saturated with Cave Story (and because of Pixel does not give permission to mod in a way). With these out the way I might be glad to mod again. The thread is right though in a way- varying things up would be beneficial to modders and players.
 
Jan 15, 2013 at 6:14 PM
hi hi
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#12
My secret project will be released soon. You'll be surprised :D

That won't be a normal CS mod.
 
Jan 15, 2013 at 7:06 PM
Okay I give up... for now
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
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#13
GIRakaCHEEZER said:
If you're modding for popularity or need support, then you probably shouldn't be modding in the first place since mods will generally get you neither.
Yeah, you shouldn't be if those two things are your motive, but I'm going to have to disagree with you when you say modding will get you neither. When there's a popular mod, the creator himself usually gains popularity. You of all people should know this.
trickybilly said:
I stopped modding partly because I've got saturated with Cave Story (and because of Pixel does not give permission to mod in a way). With these out the way I might be glad to mod again.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Pixel doesn't mind what people do with the original Cave Story, it's just the NICALiS ports you've got to watch out for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan 15, 2013 at 10:53 PM
Not anymore
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#14
I think GIR considers fame as...

1. Becoming Steve Jobs.
2. Getting all the pretty ladies. All of them.

Since GIR already has number 2, he needs to get number 1. He couldn't do that with his mod, so therefore, he's not satisfied with the fame that mods will give you.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 3:02 AM
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#15
To be honest, I was considering to try and mod/hack Cave Story to the point where you can chose either one person's POV, or another person's POV. (If you chose one person, you'd play through the game with that one person. If you chose the other person, you'd start somewhere else and you would play from that one person.) To me, I think it was an interesting idea, but I'd have to learn how to Assembly Hack. (If I do stick with it and decide to not give up, I could try and learn to Assembly Hack) It wouldn't be the same like what HiMyNameIsMatt is saying, but for me, (Not knowing any/very much of CS hacking, which I have tried to a small extent) it'd be a nice start for me.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 3:58 AM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 1187
Age: 25
#16
That's decent at least. The whole point here is to try things that make your mode less like cavestory. It's difficult to ddeviate from the patterns used in Cave Story when you use it for direct study and inspiration. I find do best in design when studying games that are very different from my game and taking what I can from them, since theres less to copy. Like studying the hell out of a 3d game before going on to make a 2d one.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 4:26 AM
Melon Lord
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#17
With the fact I keep adding little things to make the world seem more alive and has some backstory (you've seen some of it already in Jenn's Journey), I've never thought of making certain parts of it mandatory. Soft or hard locks, both of those seem like interesting things to do. For the exploration aspect....I've actually thought of it for JJ, but I was worried that trying to make an open-ended world may conflict with trying to progress the story. Course, I've seen that been pulled off, just not sure if I can do it. The minimal NPC aspect will be in there, as I'm more focused on interaction with....well you'll see.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 4:43 AM
I don't anymore.
"I'm sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle."
Join Date: Aug 9, 2010
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Age: 25
#18
soft locks are an amazing concept. NOTHING is more fun that breaking a game, and getting an advantage from it. It makes you believe you know what you're doing well enough to go beyond the rules. It's satisfactory as hell. It's one of the things I strive to do in my things. That's not to say it's the only route. People look for different things in games, and some games are better with the delivery than others. Try to focus on what yours is really about, and this shouldn't be as much of a problem for you.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 7:29 AM
Not anymore
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#19
Rubyyoshi said:
To be honest, I was considering to try and mod/hack Cave Story to the point where you can chose either one person's POV, or another person's POV. (If you chose one person, you'd play through the game with that one person. If you chose the other person, you'd start somewhere else and you would play from that one person.) To me, I think it was an interesting idea, but I'd have to learn how to Assembly Hack. (If I do stick with it and decide to not give up, I could try and learn to Assembly Hack) It wouldn't be the same like what HiMyNameIsMatt is saying, but for me, (Not knowing any/very much of CS hacking, which I have tried to a small extent) it'd be a nice start for me.
This is wrong. Completely wrong.
You can easily do this without assembly hacking.
Xaser already did this. Without assembly hacking at all.
Runelancer already did this. Without assembly hacking that part of the game.
I did this in my second mod. Without assembly hacking that part of the game.

You just have to use the Mimiga mask. You can put on the Mimiga mask and take it off using TSC. You don't need the item in your inventory.
The Mimiga mask is not actually a mask. You can change the character's appearance into something completely different.

Do you see why this is possible without assembly?
Now go ahead and make a cool mod.
 
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