Was Nicalis a mistake for Pixel?

Old topic!
The last post in this thread is over 60 days old. Posting in this thread will be considered a bump, so please make an attempt to be courteous if you go ahead with it.

If the last post is over 6 months old, it may instead be a better idea to start a new topic. If you aren't sure about what to do, feel free to ask a staff member for help, or try to locate a 'general questions'-type thread if it exists in this (sub-)forum.
Aug 15, 2019 at 6:33 PM
Junior Member
"Wahoo! Upgrade!"
Join Date: Dec 22, 2018
Location: Sand Zone Residence
Posts: 45
Literal translation doesn't have to be bad
I've worked in the localization industry for 4 years and I've always been told to prefer what sounds better in my language over literal translation.

Okay, I don't think you speak Japanese at all, so let me explain.
Neither me, nor you are a professional Japanese translator/speaker. I've linked a post from someone who is. That's all I have to say about that huge paragraph.

they hired two Japanese people to translate the game into English
And the problem is...? Just because they're "Japanese people" it doesn't mean they can't be fluent in another language. I've worked with a Ukrainian person who was doing translations from Russian to English and did a far better job than a native English speaker (from the US) our company hired later on.

Finally, I'll leave you all with this tweet, which was retweeted by Michael Lambert. (the "lead artist" of Cave Story+)
The tweet is dumb because (again) it tries to portray Nicalis as if they completely stole Cave Story from Pixel. Again, that is not the case, and I'm not going to go over again to explain why.
 
Aug 15, 2019 at 7:27 PM
Part-Time Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1599
Age: 119
I've worked in the localization industry for 4 years and I've always been told to prefer what sounds better in my language over literal translation.
So?

And the problem is...?
The translation is stilted.
Most people I've seen talk about the two translations have preferred the localisation of the AGTP.

it tries to portray Nicalis as if they completely stole Cave Story from Pixel.
"Completely stole", no.
Want sole credit for?
Obviously.
Maybe you also don't understand memes either, because they tend to exaggerate things.

I've linked a post from someone who is.
Who didn't provide much insight, referenced one word in a JED, and then said that it was inconclusive.
So with this in mind, calling this place the “Bushlands” probably is a more accurate translation. I say “probably” because it’s always possible some word play was intended, but given that this is the official translation of a game developed by the tiniest team possible, it’s likely the creator was asked for details and confirmation of stuff. It’s such a unique situation that I’m really curious to know how much contact the translator(s) had with the creator, actually.
Given the fair number of inaccuracies in the translation elsewhere, I'm not very confident that the translators really consulted Pixel much. They were probably fairly confident with their understanding of what they were reading already, given that it's their native language. Most of this stuff is pretty simple, really.
 
Aug 15, 2019 at 7:54 PM
Neophyte Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Aug 13, 2019
Location:
Posts: 4
Pixel himself (along with some other developers) worked on CS3D. It wasn't Nicalis who made it. By criticizing CS3D you're indirectly criticizing Pixel. If Pixel liked the end result, it means he considers it good.
There were reports around the time of CS3D's development that Pixel was directing or giving input, but in the credits in the game itself he is only listed under one vague role - "Created by." Every important role - Executive Producer, Development Director, Art Lead - are all given to other people. I'm a little skeptical with how much input he really had. It's actually not entirely clear, but given that the art style for characters and environments alike differ so drastically from every other work of art he's made, I have my doubts. The proof is in the fact the work lacks his distinct style AND if that's not enough for you, the credits also reinforce that his input was not in key development roles.

Even then, Pixel is not a god. I respect his work a lot, but he can be wrong - no one person is infallable. CS3D was not a good adaptation by any standard, even if he did give an OK to it. The staff at Nicalis is responsible for actually MAKING it. This "critiquing through proxy" standard you have is utterly ridiculous - Nicalis made the assets themselves, so they get the bulk of the critique. It's not hard.

The code for Boss Rush is the same because it is the mod. Nicalis approached this very forum for mods to include into CS+.
Getting developer consent would erase my issue with that a lot - do you have sources on the threads between Nicalis and the community? Is there any evidence that the mod creators got compensation for their work?

Did Pixel quit his day job after the wiiware release thanks to the revenue from Nicalis? Yes. Does he still get enough revenue from Nicalis? Yes.
I don't see how Nicalis is a mistake for Pixel.
Revanue-wise, it was not a mistake by any means. He's getting the compensation he deserved from the original Cave Story release. I wouldn't be surprised if Pixel views how Nicalis handles Cave Story as a more business-oriented venture than a creative one, given that he has a family to feed. And that is fine.

However, Nicalis is not the only company who could have given Pixel the ability to quit his day job. You're making the judgement from the wrong point in the timeline - it was not a mistake for Pixel to partner with a company to monetize CS. It was a mistake that he chose Nicalis. Arguably, WayForward had a similar stature to Nicalis back in the day, but their standard of custom work is much higher than Nicalis'.

I don't see how "more verbose/literary" means "more natural". When I play the game with the AGTP translation, I feel like I'm reading a book. When I play the Nicalis ports, I feel like I'm face-to-face with the characters. The AGTP translation also has/had many mistakes that are just too disappointing to even think about. (I'm looking at you, Koron, Nikumaru, and Grasstown).
This is just down to personal preference; I prefer the literary feel, personally. If you prefer the ports, that's your taste. I only have JLPT N4 (gonna take N3 in four months-ish) so I don't have the skill to discern how the translations should have been done, but yeah. Otherwise, this critique of mine is the only truly subjective one.
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 12:30 AM
Farmer Elf
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2262
Age: 25
Getting developer consent would erase my issue with that a lot - do you have sources on the threads between Nicalis and the community? Is there any evidence that the mod creators got compensation for their work?
Looking into @tyrone's history, this thread very well exists.

I did catch something very curious in the thread that I'm certain that everyone in here will get a kick out of.
- CANNOT have any sprite changes, we don't want new characters or character/weapon replacements (character sprites, weapons etc)
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 12:13 PM
Part-Time Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1599
Age: 119
get a kick out of.
Serri, I get a kick out of everything that Tyrone posts, because he is beautifully clueless. And acts like a passive-aggressive wanker when you point out obvious flaws in his company's work.

Getting developer consent would erase my issue with that a lot - do you have sources on the threads between Nicalis and the community? Is there any evidence that the mod creators got compensation for their work?
I'm pretty sure they weren't credited.
It seems like any/all submissions were made privately.
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 7:22 PM
Neophyte Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Aug 13, 2019
Location:
Posts: 4
They went one step forward by getting permission, but one step backwards for not crediting. An unknown huge step forwards or backwards based on if they were paid or not.
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 8:36 PM
Farmer Elf
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2262
Age: 25
They went one step forward by getting permission, but one step backwards for not crediting. An unknown huge step forwards or backwards based on if they were paid or not.
But hey, at least there are forum members that were credited for testing the game (I'm certain there are more, but these are the names I was able to recognize).
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 12:07 AM
Junior Member
"It's dangerous to go alone!"
Join Date: May 31, 2018
Location: under your bed
Posts: 32
re. the Grasstown vs. Bushlands thing: Bushlands may be the more accurate translation(?), sure, but.... bushlands the real place isn't known for its dark, thick, carpeting, grass.
Sure, there can be a lot of grass but it's just tufts of shitty pointy stuff and doesn't resemble the in-game location at all and i don't think i've ever seen giant floating jellyfish here either
Grasstown, on the other hand, makes more sense because, yknow, the one of the most memorable thing about the area is its grass, and people who don't know what the heck a bushlands is will probably prefer Grasstown for that reason.
Though Grasslands would've been a nice compromise, i guess, seeing as there's not a whole lotta town either.
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 7:24 PM
Part-Time Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1599
Age: 119
There is a whole lotta town in the 3DS version, proving the Grasstown name even more.
Pics or you're a liar and a massive lying liar pants.
 
Aug 19, 2019 at 12:12 AM
Farmer Elf
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2262
Age: 25
Pics or you're a liar and a massive lying liar pants.
I may be a lying liar pants, but I'm not a massive lying liar pants. Here's some photos I took a few months back.

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

And still no bush in sight, fite me

 
Aug 19, 2019 at 5:16 AM
Part-Time Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1599
Age: 119
I may be a lying liar pants, but I'm not a massive lying liar pants. Here's some photos I took a few months back.

Hidden text highlight (or click) to view:

And still no bush in sight, fite me

Welp, now the bad translation also sounds like a contradiction.
Honestly so much of NiCALiS's Cave Story content contradicts how Pixel presented it.

Hey, anyone feel like discussing why Bubbline is a horrible translation?
 
Aug 20, 2019 at 10:25 PM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Mar 31, 2019
Location: Central USA
Posts: 17
i just call it the bubble gun
i dont feel like having that argument again
 
Aug 21, 2019 at 1:19 AM
Everything you hate about humanity
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Sep 22, 2012
Location: Hell
Posts: 498
Not funny, Didn't laugh.

I think NICALiS chose Bushlands because it sounds slightly less generic than Grasstown.

Grasstown sounds like what you'd do when you can't come up with a cool fictional name.

Bushlands atleast sounds vaguely like it'd be a real city.
 
Aug 30, 2019 at 9:25 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6174
Age: 34
but one step backwards for not crediting.
Everyone was credited by their irl names. My name is in there as well, even though I didn't do much as far as testing is concerned.
 
Aug 30, 2019 at 11:08 AM
Part-Time Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1599
Age: 119
Everyone was credited by their irl names. My name is in there as well, even though I didn't do much as far as testing is concerned.
Nobody was credited under map/mod/challenge making though?
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 3:15 AM
Senior Member
"This is the greatest handgun ever made! You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"
Join Date: Jul 6, 2019
Location:
Posts: 106
i just call it the bubble gun
i dont feel like having that argument again
Yup

Nobody was credited under map/mod/challenge making though?
Really? That's dumb.

What about their 2019 April Fools joke that people wanted as an actual game?
Yeah, it would have been a actual good 3D Cave Story game (if they didn't mess up)

ANYONE WANT SOME CAVE STORY COASTERS?
NO? PFFFT.
WANT A SCALE REPLICA OF ANY OF THE WEAPONS? A T-SHIRT? A PLUSHIE?
YES?? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
That would have been cool.

has anyone mentioned how we know exactly how to fix Curse Broken in CS+ but they havent fixed it in 7 years
bc thats the kind of problem i have with them
It's fixed.
MY FULL ACHIEVMENT LIST IS CALLING!!!

It's sad I didn't know there was an original version for the longest time, up until a year ago, and Cave Story was my favorite game, and, I thought the Wii Music was fine. S u e M e. I thought the original was though I find many of those songs worse than the original, but I really liked Running Hell, and Balcony from that game. Its also sad I didn't find all these people that like the game as much or much more than me. I would have loved to speak with this many people before then, and yes, if it wasn't obvious, grew up with the Wii version.
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 4:44 AM
Farmer Elf
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location:
Posts: 2262
Age: 25
S u e M e.
Welp, you've asked for it.

:sue: :sue: :sue:

Also, i started and stuck with the dsi version for a while, at least the wii version had stuff that some people would find interesting.
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 5:35 AM
Senior Member
"This is the greatest handgun ever made! You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"
Join Date: Jul 6, 2019
Location:
Posts: 106
at least the wii version had stuff that some people would find interesting.
Boss Rush is the only thing I would find interesting besides the story, I don't like the Blood Stained Sanctuary Rush/Speed Run thing, it doesn't give a life pot, I h a t e I t

Also, i started and stuck with the dsi version for a while
If I knew that Cave Story was on the DS and if I knew Cave Story existed then, I would have bought a DS just for a Cave Story on the go, but luckily for me, they released it for Nintendo Switch, which is just CS+ but handheld and-- wait its Multiplayer? YES!
 
Aug 31, 2019 at 6:20 PM
Shark bully
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 731
Age: 21
but handheld and-- wait its Multiplayer? YES!
Tbh I never really was that interested in the multiplayer part when it came out cause i felt it'd be fun for a while until the novelty of a multiplayer cs would wear off fast.
Or at least wouldn't be worth the 30€ for me when I can also just enjoy the 3ds eshop version.
I might be beating a dead horse here but as I said before I don't really get hyped for new CS ports mostly because I don't feel like paying for mostly the same gameplay, especially not for four times the price of a port I already own.
I guess that's kind of my current opinion on how Nicalis handles CS these days but I can imagine other people are rather happy about it instead.
 
Top