Want to play my edited game?

Hey SeriousFace. I just finished getting through the reservoir. I like it so far, but I notice a couple of things...
1. The events are...uh...weird. I mean, right from the start, I can find Toroko in the shack without ever going to the reservoir.
2. Umm...What's the deal with the chest in the first stage? I couldn't find a way to get to it, but I noticed and moved it in Miza. It had a save system, a cure-all, and the whimsical star. Whenever I look at the item description of the cure-all, I regain ten health. It's hard to die with that

I like it so far.

 

Hmm... So you can fight Balrog before getting the pendent. I dont' even remember doing anything to that zone. Thanks alot I'll see whats wrong and fix it.
Fixed this. Just forgot a < before END for event 290. Thx for pointing it out.

I think in this game you can't get the treasure chest at the bottom of the reservoir, this has already been fixed. There might be something wrong with the life up in the zone, but I have yet to figure out what messes it up. If something happens to it please let me know.

That chest is there so my chump friends will play the game. I want there opinions on things, but they arn't into Cave Story as much as I am so, I figured they wouldn't play thru the hardparts with out some help. So... when I send Cave Story to one of them, I move the chest.

 

Started playing this for a bit today and I can completely understand why you refer to is as hard mode. lol And I still haven't been able to find this alleged first "heart-tank". I've seen one in the first cave that is sitting on a ledge after entering a semi-hidden room from the room with all of the destructable blocks/traps, however to get to it it seems I must have to jump through a narrow gap of spikes and then across a series of pits in which I haven't been able to do due to the fact that one hit from the spikes kills me. Not sure if this is the first heart tank you can get as having another would certainly help in getting through this already insanely difficult room.

Regarding the design process, this is very well done and so far it almost feels as well done as the hard-mode projects originally started from Challenge Games. They were the ones responsible for making ZeldaC, or Zelda Challenge: Outlands and the Zelda2C, or Zelda 2 Challenge. There is also a Metroid Challenge and Metroid: Project Ridien. These were redesigns of the original games, but with the sole purpose of making them as challenging as possible. Not sure if you would want to continue the same titling vein but it seems fitting if you were to refer to this project as something like "Cave Story Challenge" or "DoukutsuC", but I suppose you could just title it Cave Story Hard-Mode as well. Just a thought.

The only other advice I can give you that hasn't been said yet is that perhaps when you are near the completion of most of the levels, perhaps you might think about touching up a few of the rooms to make them a bit artistic and less of an edited/hacked feel to it. Rooms such as the "point of no return" where you have a straight path cut horizontally and vertically could be spruced up a bit if you were to include various shaped blocks positioned where all of the blank space is and use them to come up with interesting patterns or shapes to just give the whole overall look of the room more of a sense of completion of a real game and less like a hack of Cave Story.

So far I love what you've done with the spike traps, the descents and crushers. I think you've got a significant amount of level designing skill to be able to pull this off well. Hopefully I can have time to play more of it soon.

-SkyeWelse

 

The life up in Map Room is technicaly the first, but I'd recommend getting that treasure chest (the one u saw after falling past the spikes) before attempting it.

I never really thought about giving my game a title, it's a good idea.
Everyone please give me ideas about this. Giving me better text for the things i've changed / added is a good idea too. I'm not good at that kind of thing. Yea... Please feel free to give me ideas for things I've already said in the game like. "Welcome to the altar of Water. Here you can trade for the Bubbler." That looks like it was written by a 10 year old.

Point of no return has a very simple design. Big drop, can't get back up. Nuff said. The part after that could indeed stand to be touched up a bit. Most of the other zones have alot more too them, especially grasstown. When you get further in I'd like to hear what you think could use more personality.

 

There a mac version?

 

Sorry... I don't know anything about Mac... Is it possible for someone to convert?

 

I'll comment on how it's played for me, anyway.

First Cave: I got one HP capsule. The overall difficulty seems to be reasonable, but the entrance to the last slew of blocks (where you essentially have to jump and shoot down at the same time) feels a bit too deceptive (maybe I'm just saying that because I had to refer to this thread, but apparently I'm not alone).

Reservoir: I got the pendant en route to getting the HP capsule, but that was it (I found the bubbler room, but it didn't seem to do anything for me). It's not particularly hard, but the jumps around the capsule killed me a couple times.

Labyrinth H: The difficulty is tolerable, I suppose. I got the HP capsule and upgrade, after lots of dying.

Egg Corridor: I got the HP capsule and eventually stumbled through. There were still some annoying parts were jumping failed, but at least you had save points nearby, and in the longer sequence you could deal with walking in spikes to get where you needed if you got knocked off (the hanging 5 dmg spikes were "helpful" in that regard). The Boss fight was still easy, even though my strategy required me to jump a few times (you just make sure you don't have to jump at a "bad" time).

Lower Grasslands: Okay, now it starts getting painful. Sometimes those green critters move too quickly for you to get to the next switch. Granted, you only *really* need to succeed with 2 of 3 (since you can bounce off spikes to get to the second position), but it's annoying if you've got to start over because you lose two of them. Still, it's managable, but a save point near the top would be nice.

Charcoal Room: Okay, I've got the leaning left thing down, and I can get up *to* the charcoal, but I haven't figured out the "getting down" part. (Yes, I'm "jumping" down. And I'm trying to hug left, but maybe I'm not just doing it well enough, since it's really hard to do with the crusher right next to the opening. It just seems that I'm not moving down fast enough to escape, because I've barely got enough speed when I'm going up with the current, and I have less speed when falling down, even with jumping. Maybe I just suck at this task.)

Jellyfish Room: That save point really could use a heart box, because it seems nearly impossible to get out of there without taking damage. I can't really comment on the difficulty (besides it being really hard), because I was going into God Mode at this point (maybe from the Charcoal Room) and couldn't be bothered to turn it off. *shrugs*

Upper Grasslands: It's a bit frustrating for me, but maybe I'll get through it. Still, it'd be nice if there was a save point around midway up there (maybe before the dragon stretch), because it gets to be a pain to redo that whole stretch over again just because of one mistake. Also, there are some places on that screen that you can fall through that don't lead to room below, and eventually you just "drown."

 

the idea of enemys in the reservoir is weird the reservoir is a part of migma village & I dont think the migmas would live in a town with a reservior plagued with any kind of monsters let alone sand zone enemys which in the diologue in arther's house after coming back from grasstown there all afraid of going to the sand zone because of them

but the jelly territory is very well designed

 

Thanks alot for the feedback Maelstrom! Been a while since someone took the time to analize my game this much. I really appreciate it. Okay point by point.

First Cave: I got one HP capsule. The overall difficulty seems to be reasonable, but the entrance to the last slew of blocks (where you essentially have to jump and shoot down at the same time) feels a bit too deceptive (maybe I'm just saying that because I had to refer to this thread, but apparently I'm not alone).

I heard ALOT of flak for this part over at Something Awful. Everyone wanted me to take it out, but I held my ground on this, here's why. Although there are many times in normal cave story where you COULD do his manuver, you never have to. So the odds are, you don't know if it's possible or not. The only reason the part looks tricky (you expected that to be an exit only, and for an entrance from fake blocks?) is because you bring outside knowledge of the original cave story where you never do this. Thus assuming the obvious way down, isn't possible. Maybe that could be considered tricky, but I want to teach you early that you will be doing new things! Even if some of them seem... eh... kinda stupid (I'm happy every time i find ANYTHING new).

Reservoir: I got the pendant en route to getting the HP capsule, but that was it (I found the bubbler room, but it didn't seem to do anything for me). It's not particularly hard, but the jumps around the capsule killed me a couple times.

Yea... It's not very hard, even if you go thru with 3hp. Thats okay tho, because if you try and go thru reallly fast thinking its not hard, then suddenly it will be hard. Much like the no jetpack parts in mario sunshine, if anyone else likes that game.

Labyrinth H: The difficulty is tolerable, I suppose. I got the HP capsule and upgrade, after lots of dying.

One of my favorite zones.

Egg Corridor: I got the HP capsule and eventually stumbled through. There were still some annoying parts were jumping failed, but at least you had save points nearby, and in the longer sequence you could deal with walking in spikes to get where you needed if you got knocked off (the hanging 5 dmg spikes were "helpful" in that regard). The Boss fight was still easy, even though my strategy required me to jump a few times (you just make sure you don't have to jump at a "bad" time).

Did you like trying to get that life capsule? Its one of my favorite things to do, I think the 1 block jump over basils is a fun kind of hard. The five damage blocks there are incridibly helpful, if you want to be slick you can take a hit from the behemoths and do the same thing, they only do 1 dmg. Doing that part right, and making both jumps, is something i've only done once.

Lower Grasslands: Okay, now it starts getting painful. Sometimes those green critters move too quickly for you to get to the next switch. Granted, you only *really* need to succeed with 2 of 3 (since you can bounce off spikes to get to the second position), but it's annoying if you've got to start over because you lose two of them. Still, it's managable, but a save point near the top would be nice.

The movement of the green guys is indeed random, but i think if you kill all the enemys before hand and haul ass at top speed, you can beat them no matter what. I took the enemys out and tested for a pretty long time. Its possible that you are fight, I'll have to test more, and maybe move one of the pressure sensitive swtiches closer. I'll talk bout save points later.

Charcoal Room: Okay, I've got the leaning left thing down, and I can get up *to* the charcoal, but I haven't figured out the "getting down" part. (Yes, I'm "jumping" down. And I'm trying to hug left, but maybe I'm not just doing it well enough, since it's really hard to do with the crusher right next to the opening. It just seems that I'm not moving down fast enough to escape, because I've barely got enough speed when I'm going up with the current, and I have less speed when falling down, even with jumping. Maybe I just suck at this task.)

You are just going about it the wrong way. Don't jump into the holes, just stand to the right, and hold left. You will make it down every time.

Jellyfish Room: That save point really could use a heart box, because it seems nearly impossible to get out of there without taking damage. I can't really comment on the difficulty (besides it being really hard), because I was going into God Mode at this point (maybe from the Charcoal Room) and couldn't be bothered to turn it off. *shrugs*

It's possible to get to that save and take 0 damage. It's also possible to get thru the rest of the stuff while taking little damage. Having the fireball and some spur ammo really helps for it.

Upper Grasslands: It's a bit frustrating for me, but maybe I'll get through it. Still, it'd be nice if there was a save point around midway up there (maybe before the dragon stretch), because it gets to be a pain to redo that whole stretch over again just because of one mistake. Also, there are some places on that screen that you can fall through that don't lead to room below, and eventually you just "drown."

The falling through part is a problem I knowabout. Seems like it shouldn't happen because there are sprite 46's lining the bottom that zone you downward. But, i guess there are still gaps, i'll just have to make em closer together. Okay, this is the 2nd time you mention save points. Go back to first cave and find the map room, it will eliminate this problem. I think for the next version I'll have save points that do <ITJ and if you don't have the map system, it gives you a hint. Because w/o that, you are making the game MUCH harder on yourself. I have yet to get to hermit armorsmith (door under gum room) w/o saving.

 

the idea of enemys in the reservoir is weird the reservoir is a part of migma village & I dont think the migmas would live in a town with a reservior plagued with any kind of monsters let alone sand zone enemys which in the diologue in arther's house after coming back from grasstown there all afraid of going to the sand zone because of them

but the jelly territory is very well designed

Try not to think too realisticaly about my game. If you must tho, think of the reservoir as an abandoned part of the village, there is a big broken flooded in house at the end. I don't know what the rational will be when i put enemys in the farm.

 

Okay, the map system has made things a lot easier (after stumbling upon it, of course). (Ab)Using it, I've been able to get through the Jellyfish area.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but like what you did with the "official" save points in the Egg Corridor, and having them connected like that.

I'm still having trouble with the Charcoal room. Standing to the right of the hole and pressing left not only gets me killed, but it gets me killed higher up (the -127 is about five pixels higher compared to jumping, which means it's doing a worse job). Am I the only one having trouble here?

At any rate, I'm looking forward to what's next. There's still a lot of game to make harder.

 

Okay, the map system has made things a lot easier (after stumbling upon it, of course). (Ab)Using it, I've been able to get through the Jellyfish area.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but like what you did with the "official" save points in the Egg Corridor, and having them connected like that.

I'm still having trouble with the Charcoal room. Standing to the right of the hole and pressing left not only gets me killed, but it gets me killed higher up (the -127 is about five pixels higher compared to jumping, which means it's doing a worse job). Am I the only one having trouble here?

You have to jump and line yourself up with the hole AND hold left once you've got in it. By jumping first, you're moving downward faster when the press starts to move.

It's pretty hard to do, though.

 

Yeah, that's what I had initially been trying (mentioned it back in post #47), and while I obviously did a lot better with that, I've still died every single time (and it's only going to get worse when I try to do the second fall, because the ceiling is lower there). I've pretty much died at the exact same height level over and over again, so I'm pretty sure I'm getting all the way over, and that I'm getting the maximum downward speed by jump all the way up. Even if I'm off by just a little bit, then the lower ceiling for the second drop would be impossible.

Unless there's an item/power-up that would help with this that I don't already have (Mimiga Mask, Whimsical Star, or the third weapon-up), I can't see how this can be done. I've tried this dozens of more times to no avail.

 

Probably obvious, but not mentioned anywhere. Maelstrom you can't get down unless there is a square of down wind at the top of the drop. No down wind = can't get down. Jumping dosn't help either, just stand to the right of the down wind, and hold left. No movement trick or anything required.

The hard part in this room is fliping the switches in a way that you can get back down.

 

Thanks, that's what I needed.

Of course, I'm having trouble with the top part. It's insanely chaotic, but maybe I'll figure it out later.

 

Probably obvious, but not mentioned anywhere. Maelstrom you can't get down unless there is a square of down wind at the top of the drop. No down wind = can't get down. Jumping dosn't help either, just stand to the right of the down wind, and hold left. No movement trick or anything required.

The hard part in this room is fliping the switches in a way that you can get back down.

Funny. Jumping is how I got down safe...
I think I held down and left.

 

It may feel chaotic, but there is no random in the switches, with some time you will figure it out (or just randomly hit switches till you are done). A friend of mine didn't feel like figuring it out.

 

The falling through part is a problem I knowabout. Seems like it shouldn't happen because there are sprite 46's lining the bottom that zone you downward. But, i guess there are still gaps, i'll just have to make em closer together.

I don't know if you've corrected this problem yet, but here's something I learned while working on my own mod.

Possibility 1: While triggers follow your character, they won't go through solid blocks to do it. I discovered this when I created solid blocks above the character, and then when I went on top of the blocks, the trigger didn't work because it was stuck underneath. So anytime your horizontal "zone downward" level is broken up by solid tiles, you'll need to put another trigger on the other side.

Possibility 2: Triggers, or any event really, won't process while another event is running. If you have an extended event running and happen to fall into a zoning trigger or "I've fallen and died" trigger, the event won't run and you'll just keep falling.

 

I tested around with it once, and found that a 46 stretchs 11 tiles in either direction. Later when I applied that, it was easy to fall though. I went back and tested again under what appeared to be the exact same circumstances, and I found different results. I do not understand exactaly how sprite 46 works, and how big it actually is... but right now I think there is a possibility that it's got some randomness.

I just need to add more and put them closer together. There is no way to be in an event when this happens, and there is nothing blocking it's range. It would just be nice if they actually stretched out untill they are blocked by solid blocks. O well, gatta work with what we got.

 

OMFG, you mean i spent all that time perfecting every section up to balfrog when i could have just done it once and saved with the map!??!
(heh, in fact i missed both life capsules in the first cave the first time around *replays*)

Is this mod likely to be finished? I'm still waiting for a challenge >