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Top 10 resons why cave story has room to improve

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Jul 30, 2013 at 6:42 AM
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#1
1. Lack of real meaning in the story.

The back story of the game is basically there as an excuse to play and the only interesting elements are the character deaths and whatnot. It lacks any moral theme which isn't required for a video game's story but definitely gives it a more cohesive feel.

2. Google searching damn near required for alt ending.

The abstract way you rescue Curly, the really hard jump to skip over booster, and finding the mushroom in the graveyard, which is usually very far from one's memory make it unlikely the average player would have found the good ending without help of some sort.

3. There's also pine Reson.

Yes

4. 1-dimensional characters

Characters don't develop at all with the exception of Balrog's being helpful at the very end which is really jarring and the reasons for Misery wanting him to rescue you not being apparent at all.

5. Sand Zone

The game has replayability to it but the section for collecting the puppies is repetitive and monotonous, lord forbid you be playing the game for the second time. It's not very satisfying to deliver each puppy either since your reward is listening to Jenka talk about back story.

6. Really crappy side games

The Wind Fortress level or the boss challenge in the Wii edition were not put together very well, they weren't made by Pixel and it shows.

7. Imperfect music

It's only decent.

8. A lot of graphical problems

There's a lot of tiles that don't mesh together well or intersect at the wrong place and break immersion.

9. Glitches

You can pause the game mid air and reset the damage time for infinitely as long as there is something to hit you. This can be used to break the game in grasstown requiring you to restart from the beginning.

10. Not the BEST way to pass the time

I like Dark Souls better for that.

If you agree with any of these, feel free to speak up. got any other ideas of okay things about cave story? you know what to do. if you though any of my comments were rude or bad, please don't rant about it. thank you for reading. :heart: :heart:
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 7:24 AM
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#2
11. Curlies panties break immersion because it portrays her as a stereotype
12. Quote isn't in Smash Bros. which breaks immersion
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 9:24 AM
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#3
HyMyNameIsMatt said:
6. Really crappy side games

The Wind Fortress level or the boss challenge in the Wii edition were not put together very well, they weren't made by Pixel and it shows.
From what I know Wind Fortress WAS actually designed by Pixel. Also I think it's a pretty well put together mini-level, as long as you remember it's a challenge level (it's a bit easy though).

Also as for #9 concerning glitches, remember that they DID fix this in all Nicalis releases, so we can at least give them credit for that.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 11:24 AM
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#4
I agree on most points, me personally, I do play Cave Story over quite frequently and the Sand Zone is the most boring and obnoxious part, but I play it so much because I like the feel of the combat and the game in general, it has a very nice feel.
I agree on the music, I like it a lot and I think the music does a great job of setting the mood, but if you do listen to it for too long it starts to get a bit grading on the ears, which is why I wish the original Cave Story had sound sliders.
I never really minded the graphical issues, with the tiles I don't usually get immersed in games like others say they do, I always view them as games, I guess also because I want to get into game design I am analysing them a lot and seeing what works and what doesn't and people methods of design etc. so I never found them immersion breaking. Also, I think they give the game a fair bit of charm they show that it is a handmade product a piece of one man's dedication to produce a game.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 12:02 PM
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#5
Matt is always correct. ALWAYS.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 2:05 PM
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#6
metalsonic71 said:
Matt is always correct. ALWAYS.
Oh god never say that again.

Cave Story is still pretty good game, I just wanted to counter the other thread/make fun of it because I know for a fact that the game isn't LITERALLY perfect.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 2:08 PM
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#7
You're so smart, Matt
Matt always knows what to say
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 5:50 PM
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#8
...Is it wrong that I disagree with almost everything from this list?

And a bunch of other things from the other list, too?

It probably is, isn't it.

I would go on a huge quote-disagree-quote quest, but my reasons are really stupid, so I don't really think I should. :koron:
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 5:51 PM
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#9
pine reson was my favourite
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 6:32 PM
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#10
Okay, so I don't know if you're completely serious in everything you mentionned or if it's just to make fun of another topic, but I don't really agree with most of what you wrote.
I don't think that there's an actual lack of meaning in the story, I even found it great even if it's one simple scheme, there's a lot of details and other stuff that makes it more original and immersive. The deaths of some characters are also interesting because they are part of these details.
The good ending can be found without searching on googles, there are enough clues for that, like when you interact with some libraries or computers. (as for the jump, there's a red mark on the floor just where you need to do it so it's being a clue and something that makes it not almost-impossible)

The sand zone is kind of annoying and the music doesn't help. However, I really like nearly all of the other musics.
I don't like the side games a lot but they're decent.
I also noticed the non-meshing tiles, and that disturbed me a lot as I really am fond of nice graphics that fits with its own style (and I really dislike those kind of things). Fortunately, that doesn't happen really often so it doesn't break the immersion too much.

The glitches are not usually disturbing glitches that keeps you from playing the game properly but they are helpful glitches in a speedrun. I don't think you will use them during your first play.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 9:17 PM
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#11
Meaning means that the story has a moral meaning to it and doesn't just exist to funnel in the game. The requirement for this is the story has to very clearly state something as a moral to follow and then support that with the action, something like don't do drugs or whatever. Not all games need it to function but it certainly makes a plot a lot more meaningful than a bunch of cool things that happen. It doesn't really need to exist within cave story but there were elements there that made it possible and the whole point was to be nitpicky and also make fun of the other thread.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 9:33 PM
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#12
If you think King is a one-dimensional character, I'd like to have a word with you
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 9:42 PM
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#13
HyMyNameIsMatt said:
Meaning means that the story has a moral meaning to it and doesn't just exist to funnel in the game. The requirement for this is the story has to very clearly state something as a moral to follow and then support that with the action, something like don't do drugs or whatever. Not all games need it to function but it certainly makes a plot a lot more meaningful than a bunch of cool things that happen. It doesn't really need to exist within cave story but there were elements there that made it possible and the whole point was to be nit-picky and also make fun of the other thread.
You know, I like plots that have morals and such. (and highly praise those that do)

But, on the other hand, if Pixel was to incorporate stuff more detailed then "don't steal" or
"don't cheat" or in this case, "power corrupts" then you would limit your game to a
smaller audience. Like if he was trying to promote... let's say...firearms for every citizen
he would limit the game to a smaller community. ect. ect.

He wanted a clean shooter with a plot, that's it.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM
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#14
I actually thought it was pretty easy to find the ma pignon, since it was in the only place with mushrooms. . .
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 10:34 PM
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#15
HyMyNameIsMatt said:
Meaning means that the story has a moral meaning to it and doesn't just exist to funnel in the game. The requirement for this is the story has to very clearly state something as a moral to follow and then support that with the action, something like don't do drugs or whatever. Not all games need it to function but it certainly makes a plot a lot more meaningful than a bunch of cool things that happen. It doesn't really need to exist within cave story but there were elements there that made it possible and the whole point was to be nitpicky and also make fun of the other thread.
I think this is a pretty weak point since it's pretty easy to derive meaning from any story if you try hard enough. In fact I'm pretty sure that was the whole point of all the English courses I took in high school.


For example, maybe Cave Story's "moral" is that one should persevere, even in impossible situations. By the time you reach the egg corridor when it's destroyed, it looks like the doctor has just about everything in place to go forward with his plans, and that you and your friends are doomed. This is why the game gives you the choice of leaving with Kazuma here, since it's the most obvious place to bail out of Quote's horrible situation. But if you choose to go on and beat the game, you see that even though it seems impossible, Quote is able to stop the Doctor, at the price of the island falling though.

Yakkers said:
If you think King is a one-dimensional character, I'd like to have a word with you
King has the character depth of a kiddie pool, which isn't actually too bad in a game where most characters have the depth of a puddle. He is probably one of the most 2-dimensional characters in the game. But Cave Story isn't a game that's primarily focused on character development. You could call it a weak point, but it's arguable as to whether or not it needed any more character development than it has.
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 10:55 PM
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#17
GIRakaCHEEZER said:
Quote is able to stop the Doctor, at the price of the island falling though.
Unless of course you did a google search on how to save curly and you defeat Ballos, which is an even harder task.

But I though the plot was Power corrupts.

Ballos had to much power for his own good, and could no longer control it under the torture.
The doctor does his undoing by using the crystal to enhance his already great powers. ect.

so there's that to...
 
Jul 30, 2013 at 11:03 PM
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#18
Bombchu Link said:
But I though the plot was Power corrupts.

Ballos had to much power for his own good, and could no longer control it under the torture.
The doctor does his undoing by using the crystal to enhance his already great powers. ect.
In regards to Ballos the moral there was more that "humanity sucks/some people are dicks", since the only reason he went crazy was because the jealous king tortured him.
 
Jul 31, 2013 at 2:14 AM
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#19
GIRakaCHEEZER said:
In regards to Ballos the moral there was more that "humanity sucks/some people are dicks", since the only reason he went crazy was because the jealous king tortured him.
If i remember correctly he said this. . .

Welcome.
I am Ballos. Ages upon ages ago,
in fear of enduring
further punishment, I allowed my magic to
run wild...
The magic became such that
even its master's hands
could not control it. As I looked on, unable
to quell its fiery rage, it took from me my loved
ones, my children, my
dearest wife...Their cries of agony
soared above the flames.I could not avert my
eyes, so I merely gazed
upon the spectacle...Laughing... Jenka sealed me away,
but my magic yet rages out
of control even now.Long, long have I waited...Waited for the one who
would finally subdue my
magic's fury...Now, kill me!
Or I-- shall kill YOU!!
And to compare to the NiCALiS translation...

Welcome!
I am Ballos.
Long, long ago I allowed my
drive for magical power to
grow recklessly without fear
of enduring any retribution.

A magic so powerful that
even its own master was
helpless to contain it...
So furious and unstoppable
was this force...
...that its fire consumed the
child who adored me, and the
wife who loved me...
They were swallowed by its
flames and suffered dearly.
...All because of my selfish
transgression.

My eyes were affixed and I
was unable to turn away from
the fiery horror...
Created with my own magic.
I could only laugh then...
Jenka sealed me away, with my
magic raging more violently
with each passing minute.
I've waited long for this...
For the person who will
bring my immense magical
fury to its end...
Now, kill me!
Or--
I WILL KILL YOU!!!
So at the very least, in the NiCALiS translation (which hayden hates) states that it is Ballos own fault for letting his magic become so powerful.
He had no heed for the danger of controlling so much power.
I never really listened to what he said in CS+ until recently by means of speed-running.

It changed what I though of him.
 
Jul 31, 2013 at 3:52 AM
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#20
Ballos aside, there's the King (who tortured Ballos to regain the power he once had), Misery (who coveted Ballos' power and paid the price), the governments on the surface (who wanted the crown for themselves and didn't care who died in the process), Miakid (who was tasked to retrieve the crown by said governments but took it for himself instead), the Doctor (who was enticed by the same power Miakid once held), and every rabid Mimiga (or rabid anything really) in the game (who gained power at the cost of their sanity).

"Power corrupts" is very much a common theme in the game.
 
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