Need your opinions on my stand-alone Cave Story game...

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Dec 29, 2012 at 7:35 AM
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I made the basic platform engine and everything, and I was wondering if you Cave Story fans could give me some feedback and advice for my WIP engine.

Any tips, any advice, ANY criticism.

Speed too high? Weapon range too high?
Acceleration too low? Wrong sound? Anything you can find.

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?9iztlrwu4ccf772

Note: If you get an error message regarding a missing music file, click on "ignore" and continue playing.

My other works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4cjU4RGiAg


Actual picture:
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 7:56 AM
Okay I give up... for now
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
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Interesting, you appear to have written this in game maker.

First off, the original Cave Story runs at 50 fps, not 60. I suppose you might have done this on purpose to make it more like CS+, but maybe not. Some other things:

- The jump sound is a bit weird.
- The jump sends you up too slowly, and you fall too fast.
- When you jump in between those two blocks on the left, you can jump a bit higher into the blocks on the top than I think you should be able to.
- There's quite a lot more of a sliding effect in this engine when you land and stop walking than the regular Cave Story engine. You also slide when you do nothing more than change directions.
- This probably isn't just because it's running at 60 fps. I think Quote walks too fast.
- When I walk up to a tile and keep trying to walk, I don't walk in place.
- Quote's collision box should probably also be expanded horizontally, as I can walk farther into platforms than I feel I should be able to, and farther than you can in Cave Story.

Anyway, nice job with the Polar Star bullets! They were nearly identical to the behavior of them from Cave Story. One surprise for me here was that you switched around the fire and jump buttons from their default positions, as I'm used to their defaults, but I guess that's opinionated. And I'm not sure if you're necessarily going for trying to make it as close as possible to the original Cave Story or not, but that's the goal that my suggestions are meant to reflect. Even though a project sort of like this is going on, I'll be interested in seeing this progress. Are you planning on making this open source?
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 9:04 AM
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Thanks for the feedback, I really need it.



So wait. It runs at 50 fps...?

What the hell is wrong with Pixel? No wonder the game felt so choppy.

Now I have to make a choice between 60 and 50!



On to the feedback:



- I had to use sound effects with no names, so I had to manually sort through every sound effect in the folder and rename them. I might get some wrong, so I'll look into the jumping.

- I edited the values a little. As you can see, this is quite the convoluted mess:

Code:
state=FALLING              //the character state, must be one of the following: STANDING, RUNNING, DUCKING, LOOKING_UP, CLIMBING, JUMPING, or FALLING
facing=RIGHT               //which direction the character is facing, must be either LEFT or RIGHT
runAcc=.1375//.275//.18                  //the running acceleration
jumpAcc=.1375             // Acceleration in mid-air - Seems to slow
Friction=0.0005//.165/2        //Useless - not used
grav=.175//global.Gravity                     //the gravity
initialJumpAcc=-2          //relates to how high the character will jump
jumpTimeTotal=90           //how long the user must hold the jump button to get the maximum jump height               //how fast the character will climb
maxSlope=2                 //approximately how many pixels the character can climb UPWARDS per step (a value of 5 means the character can climb up a slope of 5)
maxDownSlope=2             //approximately how many pixels the character can climb DOWNWARDS per step (a value of 5 means the character can climb down a slope of 5)
frictionRunningX=0.9325       //friction obtained while running - MULTIPLIER
frictionJumpingX=1      // while jumping
xVelLimit=2.03              //limits the xVel
yVelLimit=3.838              //limits the yVel
xAccLimit=2.03                //limits the xAcc
yAccLimit=3.838                //limits the yAcc


- Yes, I made the collision box 2 pixels lower from the top to let Quote get into the hole in the first place! Unless his vertical speed is very small, he seems to have issues with getting in there.

- Made the unrequired sliding go away, and slowed downt he game to 50 FPS since slowing down Quote's speed wouldn't have worked because my engine always likes to round values.

- Slowed it down by FPS.

- Made him walk in place now! Yay!

- Issue is that if I made it any bigger, he will be able to run over gaps. EDIT: Edited the code, now he will be forced to fall 1 pixel down when running above a gap.





Fixed everything (kinda maybe i think maybe ish), added moving solids, and yeah: http://www.mediafire.com/?95s71yxzpbzhfd5





Edit: I'm not going to upload it or anything, but I finally made the code to get Quote into tight horizontal corridors while jumping.

Code:
if !(isCollisionBottom(6) or isCollisionPlatformBottom(6)){
if !isCollisionLeft(1) && facing=LEFT && yVel!=0 && xVel<0 and kLeft and isCollisionGap(1)
x-=1
if !isCollisionRight(1) && facing=RIGHT && yVel!=0 && xVel>0 and kRight and isCollisionGap(1)
x+=1}
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM
Okay I give up... for now
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
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So, you're making progress. One thing I forgot to mention the previous time was that when I started the game, I got this error message:
ERROR in
action number 2
of Create Event
for object oGame:

Sound does not exist.
And I had to click ignore in order to proceed.

Anyway, some stuff:

- Quote still goes on a bit more than I think he should when you stop walking. He doesn't so much slide as he does barely keep walking after you let go.
- When I begin walking, it takes me about half a second to get to full walking speed.
- Quote should be able to jump exactly four tiles high at maximum without a Booster with the highest line of pixels of his sprite barely reaching one pixel above the very top of the fourth tile. The jumping physics are much improved. Still a few things that should be tweaked, but for now I recommend that you just fix this.
- There is improvement in changing directions without going anywhere. However, Quote still shuffles his body a bit when he changes directions.
- Sorry I didn't mention this earlier. The sound for Quote bumping his head against the ceiling isn't the same as the one that plays in Cave Story.

Again, I'm not sure if you're going for complete accuracy to the original Cave Story engine, or if you're just making one by your own rules.

So I think that when you're walking, you've got the speed almost perfect. So good job on that. Also good job with the more expanded horizontal collision boxes. Keep up the good work!
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 9:22 PM
Okay I give up... for now
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
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Still improving, but still more room for improvement:

- Sorry, I was slightly incorrect before. When you turn around in the original Cave Story engine, the first frame of the walking animation shows, then you turn around.
- There's still more of a sliding effect in here than in Cave Story.
- It's quite a bit easier to edge forward in the regular Cave Story engine than in this one. And when you do in the original, the first frame of the walking animation shows. In yours, if you do manage to edge forward, then you simply move, and the first frame of the walking animation does not show.
- It's nice that you've fixed the insufficient acceleration when beginning to walk glitch, but when I press a left or right arrow, it's about half a second before Quote starts walking, as opposed to the original Cave Story engine in which Quote starts walking (almost) immediately after you press the left or right arrow keys.
- The sound that is currently the bumping your head on the ceiling sound is supposed to play when you land on the ground.
- The jumping sound has not yet been changed to the proper one.
- The bumping head on the ceiling sound still hasn't been changed to the one that plays when you bump your head on the ceiling in Cave Story.
- Sorry I didn't mention this earlier, those sparkles should only appear when you bump your head on the ceiling, and not if you land on them with your feet.
- When I leap into the air, I can change my horizontal direction in midair a lot faster than I can in Cave Story without a Booster.

Anyway, keep at it. I'll run out of critiques eventually, provided you fix all these. Also, I don't believe you answered my question. Are you trying to make this as close to the regular Cave Story engine as possible?
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 9:57 PM
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Woah, its pretty accurate, especially for game maker. I see in the info (F1 key) that it was based on an old mario engine (Huh, i have that engine on my netbook). When its complete, will the source be released?
Also heres a bug:when you turn up, the polar star still shoots left or right, also the collision is weird with slopes.
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 10:03 PM
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I am trying to make it pretty damn close to the original, 50 FPS and all.

- Done
- Done, although every time I make the sliding effect less noticeable, I have to increase the acceleration speed to make up for the stricter friction. This is as far as it will go.
- Fixed - kinda
- It's only 4 frames difference. If I make you move instantly, you'll also slide when turning...
- I checked, and it isn't. It's the footstep sound.
- This is the only sound I found that matches. You can't eve imagine how bad the other ones sounded.
- I didn't find any such sound in the folder, so I made by own by editing the pitch and speed of the footstep sound.
- Fixed
- Fixed

http://www.mediafire.com/?no2m6x2nlfdyxnh

More critique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the above: The gun and bullets are only temporary (I plan on adding bad-ass lightning guns), and the aiming is still incomplete - And what do you mean by "weird"?
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 10:14 PM
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The Core said:
I am trying to make it pretty damn close to the original, 50 FPS and all.

- Done
- Done, although every time I make the sliding effect less noticeable, I have to increase the acceleration speed to make up for the stricter friction. This is as far as it will go.
- Fixed - kinda
- It's only 4 frames difference. If I make you move instantly, you'll also slide when turning...
- I checked, and it isn't. It's the footstep sound.
- This is the only sound I found that matches. You can't eve imagine how bad the other ones sounded.
- I didn't find any such sound in the folder, so I made by own by editing the pitch and speed of the footstep sound.
- Fixed
- Fixed

http://www.mediafire.com/?no2m6x2nlfdyxnh

More critique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the above: The gun and bullets are only temporary (I plan on adding bad-ass lightning guns), and the aiming is still incomplete - And what do you mean by "weird"?
Gonna update this post with review of that version soon! also by weird i mean, see that slope in the left of the area with the block ceiling right next to it? you cant fit into that area because of the slopes collision.
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 10:18 PM
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You're not supposed to fit there. It was just a test to see if Quote will go through.
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 10:52 PM
Okay I give up... for now
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So, great job! The only two things I'll comment on are that you can still jump higher into the ceiling than you can in Cave Story, and the jumping physics could still do with a bit more tweaking. I'm wanting to say that you jump and fall faster in this engine. But to really make it as accurate as possible, tweak your engine to make the jumping physics as close to http://www.cavestory.org/forums/threads/792/"]this[/url] as possible. Your sample didn't have the necessary layout to test all these things, so you'll have to either do that yourself, or in the next release expand the room a bit.

Anyway, please don't be alarmed if I come back and critique something that you thought we already discussed, I'm bound to miss something.
 
Dec 29, 2012 at 11:07 PM
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Friction isn't a multiplier (just subtracts)
The variable jumping works by having different values of gravity while z is pressed and while z is not pressed (and while you're travelling upwards)
That'll be both more akin to and less complicated then whatever method you're using right now (with timers and such)
 
Dec 30, 2012 at 2:19 AM
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Pretty Nice!
But you should expand the window size (I'm not a big fan of squinting)
 
Dec 30, 2012 at 2:27 AM
Okay I give up... for now
"What is a man!? A miserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
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minerguy667 said:
Pretty Nice!
But you should expand the window size (I'm not a big fan of squinting)
Or you can put it in fullscreen.

But yeah, it would be nice if you could have the window be at least 640x480.
 
Dec 30, 2012 at 2:36 AM
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F4 for fullscreen.
I'll have to add an options menu to the title.
 
Dec 30, 2012 at 7:47 PM
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Yeah, I downloaded the engine and I have to say, I'm quite impressed. But one thing I have to point out is that Quote doesn't shoot upward when I press up and fire.
 
Dec 31, 2012 at 7:43 PM
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Shooting is still WIP and isn't even close to being finished.

All the polar star bullets and effects come from one placeholder object.





Double post bump thing.









Map system I made in about 6 minutes.

I decided to make the player's location a bit more obvious since everything was pixel-sized and somewhat hard to see.

Thoughts?





CODE FOR USERS WHO WANT IT:

Code:
if !variable_local_exists("Step") {for (i=0;i<room_width/16;i+=1)
for (j=0;j<room_height/16;j+=1)
IsSolid[i,j]=position_meeting(i*16,j*16+16,oSolid)
Width=room_width/16
Height=room_height/16
Step=0}   ViewX=view_xview+view_wview/2
ViewY=view_yview+view_hview/2
Step+=1
if Step<=1{
draw_set_color(c_black)
draw_set_alpha(1)
draw_rectangle(ViewX-Width/2-1,ViewY-Height/2-1,ViewX+Width/2+1,ViewY+Height/2+1,0)
draw_set_color(make_color_rgb(70,255,70))
for (i=0;i<Width;i+=1)
for (j=0;j<Height;j+=1)
if IsSolid[i,j]=1
draw_point(ViewX-Width/2+i,ViewY-Height/2+j)}
if Step=1
{
MapSprite=sprite_create_from_screen(ViewX-Width/2,ViewY-Height/2,Width,Height,0,0,0,0)
} if Step>1
{draw_set_color(c_black)
draw_rectangle(ViewX-Width/2-1,ViewY-Height/2-2,ViewX+Width/2,ViewY+Height/2,0)
draw_sprite(MapSprite,0,ViewX-Width/2,ViewY-Height/2)} if global.GameTime mod 2=0
draw_set_color(make_color_rgb(255,255,200))
else
draw_set_color(make_color_rgb(128,128,255))
if instance_exists(oQuote)
draw_point(ViewX-Width/2+floor(oQuote.x/16),ViewY-Height/2+floor(oQuote.y/16))


It all goes into the draw event.

It basically works by making an array grid to see which places in the map have a solid in them, and then draws it pixel by pixel

to the screen. After 2 frames of drawing it, it just makes a sprite of the recorded data and draws that to the screen, making it

faster.













EDIT: New file released. Camera, Map, shooting, all that stuff.


http://www.mediafire.com/?9iztlrwu4ccf772
 
Jan 2, 2013 at 8:43 AM
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I'm done with my railgun, and yes, I might release it if you guys are interested in it.
 
Feb 22, 2013 at 1:43 AM
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Not bad for a start hum. Well, actually, it's pretty fu**ing awesome! You will have to adjust some things of the collision boxes, tough:

When Quote is trapped and there is only 1 square to jump, the collision box starts to fail: the jump must be precise because Quote collision box is way to wide.
The shooting system is incomplete.
Quote collision box is very tall, too. Quote cannot pass between the stair and the block above.

But yeah, it's pretty awesome. Quote jumps and fall a bit faster than in Cave Story, maybe reduce a bit the gravity, so it'll be a bit slower.

Keep the awesome, because it's awesome the engine.
 
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