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Mod: The Wrath of Revorshkenahl

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Apr 18, 2010 at 6:02 PM
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Disagree+question

I disagree with WoodenRat. This mod has one of the best atmosphere, or "feeling" among all mods in these forums.

Question: Can somebody please give me the solution to the lever puzzle? I`m stuck there. I`m terrible @ puzzles.
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 1:06 AM
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trickybilly said:
I disagree with WoodenRat. This mod has one of the best atmosphere, or "feeling" among all mods in these forums.
Why thank you! I was going for that with this mod, but I have to say there are some mods that have done waaaay better than I have with this one (i.e. Schism, Path of Ruin, WTF Story, and others).

trickybilly said:
Question: Can somebody please give me the solution to the lever puzzle? I`m stuck there. I`m terrible @ puzzles.
You mean the one at the end of the Tundra?


This is a map of the Tundra puzzle. Each letter represents a "room". You start in room N, and your goal is to get to the *. A circled letter means there is a lever in the room. A double line between two rooms represents no barrier between them (i.e. you can always move from one to the other unconditionally). A single line between two rooms means that you can only sometimes move between them depending on which levers are pulled. The text near each single line indicates the condition that must be satisfied in order to be able to travel between the rooms. For example, to travel between rooms H and I, lever K must be pulled. Some paths have TWO conditions that must BOTH be satisfied. A line over a letter means that lever must NOT be pulled. For example, to travel between rooms M and N, lever F must be pulled AND lever N must NOT be pulled.

The text on the line connecting J and F is kinda unclear in the pic. It's supposed to be an E and an F with a line over the F but NO line over the E.

See if you can figure it out from that. If not...
Pull these levers in sequence: N, E, F, N, M, N, C, K, G, H, B, H, G, L
Then you should be able to escape.

And did you resolve those issues you were recently telling me about via visitor message?
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 1:32 AM
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Re: Disagree+question

trickybilly said:
Question: Can somebody please give me the solution to the lever puzzle? I`m stuck there. I`m terrible @ puzzles.
That puzzle wasn't actually that hard, at least, not compared to the one with the colored blocks near the end, which I had to cheat (watched bad beholder's LP of it).

I might pick up my old save of this and try to beat the game, now that I know about that silly deathtrap. And if it proves too difficult, I might just use a trainer.\

[EDIT]: Wait, so even IF I get past that living deathtrap(which I had to hack to beat, because I'm too lazy to go through 20-30 mins of level each time that boss kills me), all that happens is that floating head decides to drop me in a room full of death spikes, killing me?

Wtf?

And also, you should really have a save before the "living deathtrap" fight. And after.

[Edit2]: Ohhhhhhhh I'm supposed to use that item that I completely had forgotten about.

But I stress again that you at LEAST need a save before the living death trap. It's not nice to make people go through 20 min of level, then kill them, and then be like "ok go do it again", and then kill them again.

Overall it's a pretty decent mod, but that difficulty spike in the end/lack of saves kinda ruins it for me.
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 4:27 PM
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Hurray I beat the game and I didn't even cheat. I just had to be told what to look out for.

It took me a long time because I got stuck in the tundra area at the bit after the moving block columns, I didn't notice the walk-throughable blocks. Then I tried to cheat and I corrupted the .exe, so I had to stop for a while >_>
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 4:43 PM
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A little tidbit has been added to the first post which some of you (Gir) may appreciate.
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 5:41 PM
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@Wedge. Thanks for the help @ levers. I played the mod through using the Ult. Doukutsu Trainer. But I was in a big hurry when playing and because of that been able to find only one ending:
when u beat up Revorshkenahl-Ballos.
I`m also curious for the hidden ending(s?) and willing to replay the whole mod to get them. Please tell me how to achieve other endings. I would write a review of TwoR after that.
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 5:56 PM
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==Finding the secret ending==

Hint:
In the entire mod, there are a total of only two destroyable blocks. They are very near each other and are near the beginning of the mod. Destroying them and going past them leads to a secret item called the "Medallion of Destiny" which allows you to reach the secret ending.

Spoiler:
In the desert, there are two destroyable blocks at the top of the map. In order to penetrate them, you need to level your Guardian Spirits up to level 3, and in order to get past the spikes beyond them, you need to first get the Life Capsule in the desert and then backtrack to where the destroyable blocks are. Destroy the blocks and go down the narrow path to the left. You are forced to hit the spikes and take 10 damage. In the side room is a person who gives you the Medallion of Destiny, and a savepoint/health refill, and an energy capsule which you can use to farm your spells back up to max. When leaving the room, make sure you have Rolling Death selected when you hit the spikes, because you will need the level 3 Guardian Spirits to penetrate the blocks.

The rest of the mod is the same until you get to the very end when Revorshkenahl drops you in the room of death spikes, and then instead of using the Spiritual Talisman, use the Medallion of Destiny, and that will cause a different final boss fight to happen, which leads to the secret ending.
 
Apr 19, 2010 at 7:00 PM
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I occurs to me I have yet to play this mod. o.o
Or, rather, the complete version.
I played an earlier release.
-DL's-
I shall play this...
Wednesday, my next day off.
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 1:19 PM
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Here is my review of TWoR:

Review:
The whole mod, as I said before, has a powerful atmosphere. The incredible music, the serious storyline, along with some graphical solutions together create a feeling of solemnity similar to a mass. The sky full of stars or twilight at the Great Unknown with red mountains, proove the artistic quaility of the mod, which is surrounded by the feeling of solemnity or almost even religious mood. The gameplay was fun, the puzzles were cleverly realized.

Constructive criticism:
When u ask the hero about spy kids or smt. It somewhat detaches the player from the story and it`s feeling.

2 suggestions:
1) The music of this mod is so good - why not put them collected in Orgviewer (like Pixel did with his music)? I really would love to listen to some of the game`s music again right now, and I can not conviniently do that replaying the game for it or searching countless posts in the music thread.
2) Publish the mod on a freeware gaming site.
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM
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trickybilly said:
Constructive criticism:
When u ask the hero about spy kids or smt. It somewhat detaches the player from the story and it`s feeling.
Really? I thought that was hilarious.

trickybilly said:
2 suggestions:
1) The music of this mod is so good - why not put them collected in Orgviewer (like Pixel did with his music)? I really would love to listen to some of the game`s music again right now, and I can not conviniently do that replaying the game for it or searching countless posts in the music thread.
2) Publish the mod on a freeware gaming site.
1) He already did (sorta), its in the soup of visitor messages between us somewhere.
2) Is that legal? ie, it's not his game, and it still uses pixels engine almost entirely.
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 3:08 PM
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trickybilly said:
Constructive criticism:
When u ask the hero about spy kids or smt. It somewhat detaches the player from the story and it`s feeling.
Yeah I felt the reference to spy kids (and the part where you included yourself more or less) in the mod were a bit distasteful, at least in the way they were done.
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 3:29 PM
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@Lace. Thx. for the link.

@Wedge. I forgot to ask u in the review: did u intentionally use philosophical symbolism in TWoR? I read MUCH philosophy for fun and if I interpreted the storyline correctly it is similar to Thomas Troward`s or Dr Joseph Murphy`s philosophy. Or do am I just starting to making up my own Revosrshkenahl theories here?:rolleyes: At least the mod have made me think on it`s message between the lines (if there is one at all, lol), which is a huge plus for it.
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 6:25 PM
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trickybilly said:
@Wedge. I forgot to ask u in the review: did u intentionally use philosophical symbolism in TWoR? I read MUCH philosophy for fun and if I interpreted the storyline correctly it is similar to Thomas Troward`s or Dr Joseph Murphy`s philosophy. Or do am I just starting to making up my own Revosrshkenahl theories here?:rolleyes: At least the mod have made me think on it`s message between the lines (if there is one at all, lol), which is a huge plus for it.
I was actually trying to put some philosophical message in there, and I'm really glad you noticed! As I said in the first post, TWoR was originally going to be a game on it's own independent of Cave Story (and still probably will be eventually). In that version I was planning on putting a LOT more effort/depth into the way the story conveys a the philosophical message, but in the Cave Story version, I was so wrapped up in figuring out the Cave Story engine and the process of modding and later in finishing the mod before my self-imposed deadline that I kinda glossed over the philosophical stuff and didn't develop it nearly as much as I would have liked to. So I'm glad that you still managed to pick up on it :D.

I'm not familiar with either of those two people you mentioned (Troward and Murphy). Like you, I'm very into philosophy, but I spend much more time contemplating my own beliefs based on personal experience and intution than reading about famous philosophers/philosophies. I don't know if you've seen this image that I made to advertise the mod, but it conveys the message behind TWoR in a nutshell. People often talk about "nature vs nurture" (Dragzeloid and Revorshkenahl, respectively) but I claim there's a third force (Solagicove/free will) which is arguably the most important of the three. When I'm not talking about TWoR directly, I typically refer to the three forces as the red, green, and blue forces, rather than Revorshkenahl, Dragzeloid, and Solagicove.

Another more subtle point, which I did hint at in the mod, was the somewhat rock-paper-scissors-ish relationship between the three forces. I hinted at this in the Solagicove dialogue, when she's talking about how she thinks Revorshkenahl is the Corrupter, Revorshkenahl thinks Dragzeloid is, and Dragzeloid thinks she is. In real life, people's biological instincts (green) tend to cause them to compromise their personal moral values (blue). For example, maybe you're deeply in love with one person, but you cheat on them because your sexual desire for someone else is too strong, even if you don't really love that person. Social constructions/institutions (red) are then created to keep biological instincts in check. Going back to the previous example, this would be like the institution of marriage. Often, the red force will tend to go too far and become too rigid that it does much more harm than good. When this happens it is usually the blue force (ideals of individual freedom and expression) that rises up to challenge this societal oppression. Continuing the love/marriage example, think of Fiddler on the Roof, where all of Tevya's daughters are being rebellious and falling in love and getting married against his will (which is a HUGE violation of social norms in their society).

I should say that, while I portrayed Revorshkenahl as being evil in the mod, I don't necessarily think of the red force as being evil per se in real life. Although much evil, perhaps even most evil, comes about as a result of it, it can also do a lot of good. This is sort of portrayed in the alternate secret ending of the mod, in which Revorshkenahl realizes that he is wrong and comes to his senses and doesn't fight you. I also used the alternate ending as a sort of plot device because I typically tend to dislike stories that involve prophecies, since it implies that the characters don't have free will. In the alternate ending, you realize that you do have free will despite the Altar of Destiny, and that the Altar of Destiny has its own will to fulfill its own prophecies, and the only way to stop it is to destroy it.

I was going to write more, but I have to leave now, so maybe later :D
 
Apr 22, 2010 at 10:44 PM
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Sea of text - part 2

Anyway billy, since you seem to especially like both the philosophical side of TWoR, and the music, I suggest you check this out. It's a four-movement piece of music relating to TWoR with a movement for each god, and one for the Altar of Destiny. Currently, they're all piano (except Solagicove, which has clarinet/flute in a few places) but I eventually want to arrange all of them for orchestra (I've already started with Dragzeloid). I explain in more detail in the post I linked to.

I looked up both of those people you mentioned on Wikipedia, and there was very little about them, but much more about what seemed to be their common philosophy (namely "New Thought") so I've started reading about that a bit, and so far I think you're right in thinking that it is sort of what I believe and what I was trying to convey in TWoR. I'm actually kind of impressed that you managed to glean that just from the somewhat watered down storyline of the CS version of TWoR :rolleyes:

And about the Spy Kids thing... Yeah, I really like humor, but I didn't use very much of it in the mod, so the few times I did, perhaps it seemed a bit out of place :D. It might have been better if I had used humor a bit more consistently throughout. This doesn't necessarily detract from the seriousness of the mod. Just look at Schism. Or Pirate - The Untold Story. Or The Paradise Project, once I actually get off my lazy ass and work on it :D.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM
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Re: Sea of text - part 2

Okay guys I'm terrible with puzzles so what's the color combination supposed to be after you defeat The Sisters?
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 2:43 PM
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@WoodenRat.

@Wedge. Thank you for the infos, I`m now downloading the music. Btw. Troward`s books are in public domain http://newthoughtlibrary.com/trowardThomas/bio_troward.htm, if u have any extra time to read.

The books: Bible Misery and Meaning, The Edinburgh& Door Lectues and the Creative Process in the Individual are good books from him. The others listed are, if I know correctly, made by a certain editor who edited&published Troward`s letters and other writings post mortem - therefore mebbe not so good.

Murphy is much easier to understand http://www.ichoosetoheal.com/downloads/the-power-of-your-subconscious-mind.pdf than Troward.

If u have any good literature to recommend for me, drop a PM.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 6:13 PM
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Re: Sea of text - part 2

WoodenRat said:
Okay guys I'm terrible with puzzles so what's the color combination supposed to be after you defeat The Sisters?
Yeah I had to cheat for that too, since the puzzle seemed terribly complicated.

I mean, you told us some hints and 1 or 2 of them were wrong right? It was hard-ish.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 7:57 PM
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Re: Sea of text - part 2

Well I managed to get solve that puzzle without cheats, but I had to guess that the 7th clue was wrong.

Anyways I'm facing another problem. In the tundra level, how am I supposed to get through those fans blowing? It's the part where you have to dash up to the small room of some sort.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 11:15 PM
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GIRakaCHEEZER said:
I mean, you told us some hints and 1 or 2 of them were wrong right? It was hard-ish.
What?? No, there was one hint which someone said was misleading in the demo version, but I changed it in the final version. Provided you interpret the language of the clues correctly, the correct answer follows logically. To see why, look at this:
Simplified version of the clues:
5 of the following 8 clues are true, the other 3 are false:

1. Green and red are adjacent.
2. Blue and yellow are on the ends.
3. Clues 1, 6, and 7 are all false.
4. Yellow is directly to the right of green.
5. Clues 1 and 3 are either both true, or both false.
6. White is directly between red and green.
7. Red and green are on the ends.
8. Clue 3 is false.

If clue 3 were true, then clues 1, 6, 7 and 8 would all be false, which is impossible, because only 3 clues are false. Clue 3 must therefore be false, so AT LEAST one of clues 1, 6, and 7 must be true. Notice that clues 1, 6, and 7 all contradict each other, so ONLY one of them can be true, and the other two must be false. We know that clue 3 is false and that two of clues 1, 6, and 7 are false, which gives us 3 false clues, meaning that clues 2, 4, 5, and 8 must all be true. Based on clue 5, clue 1 must be false, since clue 3 is, and clue 7 is false, because it contradicts clue 2. This leaves clue 6 as being true.

In summary, the 3 false clues are 1, 3, and 7, and the 5 true clues are 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8. Now let's look at what this tells us about the stone placement:

From clue 2, yellow must be either on the far right or the far left, but it can't be on the far left because of clue 4. These two clues give us blue on the far left, yellow on the far right, and green directly left of yellow. By clue 6, we know that white must be directly left of green, and red directly left of white. This leaves black in the one remaining slot between blue and red.

In summary, the order is (from left to right): blue, black, red, white, green, yellow.


trickybilly said:
@Wedge. Thank you for the infos, I`m now downloading the music. Btw. Troward`s books are in public domain http://newthoughtlibrary.com/troward...io_troward.htm, if u have any extra time to read.

The books: Bible Misery and Meaning, The Edinburgh& Door Lectues and the Creative Process in the Individual are good books from him. The others listed are, if I know correctly, made by a certain editor who edited&published Troward`s letters and other writings post mortem - therefore mebbe not so good.

Murphy is much easier to understand http://www.ichoosetoheal.com/downloa...cious-mind.pdf than Troward.

If u have any good literature to recommend for me, drop a PM.
Thanks! I'll have a look at that at some point.
 
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