Do any of the mandatory weapons bother anyone else?

It always annoyed me that the Fireball was mandatory especially. It feels entirely unnecessary. Sure it's useful for slopes and such but I don't find it hard at all to use other weapons instead of it. I didn't even realize what it was useful for in my first playthrough, and it usually becomes pretty useless to me after Sand Zone. I don't see why we can't just keep moving forward and ignore Santa so we can talk to Chaco or even just get the option to refuse Santa's present.
If the reason is so you can get the Snake there are easy workarounds like Santa continuing to give you a prompt to grab it until you get sent to the Labyrinth like Curly's Machine Gun, and having it be left in his house once all the Mimigas are kidnapped.

I also don't get why there is actually a text box preventing you from leaving the Blade behind. It seems so weird and restrictive.
Granted I didn't even realize you couldn't leave it until I happened to find out online later, and it would be kinda shitty to turn your nose up at King's sword after he just died in your arms (though despite that you can trade it for the Nemesis for some reason), plus it's my fav weapon anyway, but it's weird Pixel went out of his way to program something so you couldn't leave it.

I like that there is a good amount of possible loadouts for any run of the game and it gives me a bit more replay value even. I like that you can miss out on the Bubbler if you don't know about or don't want it, I like that there are so many chances to trade weapons for other ones, I like that you never have to grab a Missile Launcher, and I especially like that there is even a little incentive to wait till Hell to get it if you want 100 Missiles for whatever reason (maybe if you don't get it enemies not dropping missiles means they drop more health too?).

I just don't get why those other weapons are required, especially when the FB is so meh. Maybe if I knew more areas it was useful in I'd like it better but it became my least favorite weapon a while ago because of this. I just think a Cave Story with more room for various weapon setups would be a slightly better Cave Story.

Oh also I don't like thinking about trying not to switch to it when I switch weapons ok rant over.

 

This is an interesting topic. I never once thought about the fact that some of the weapons were mandatory, and thus I can't say that I was ever bothered by it.

That isn't to say that your point doesn't have merit, though. The ability to pick and choose the weapons you want as you please, Polar Star excluded, would be a subtle, yet effective way to increase replay value for the more veteran players who wish to complete the game with only certain weapons. That kind of replayability is something I really do value in a game. It never bothered me in Cave Story though, and I think that's because the way that the weapons are handed out is pretty effective and unintrusive. The only two weapons that are mandatory outside of the Polar Star are the Fireball and the Blade, which both feel like good fits for a "required weapon" mold. I personally have a lot of fun with the Fireball's unique arc and gravity-based pattern, and it's really effective in the area you get it in. The Blade has perhaps more purpose based on the story than the gameplay, but given the area you're first allowed to use it in, it's also extremely effective. It also works as a good power-based weapon if you skipped the Missile Launcher. So essentially you have a basic, linear weapon (Polar Star), a weapon that can hit enemies in more specialized ways (Fireball), and a more powerful weapon that works well in closer quarters (Blade). I think that making sure a first time player gets at least these three weapons was a smart idea. It's hard to make that argument for, say, the Bubbler because it feels a lot more niche and cumbersome to use than the others. Missiles already have ammo, so they never really felt very all-purpose or necessary in the first place (and you have the Blade to compensate for it later on anyway). The others are somewhat redundant because of the similar firing pattern to the Polar Star.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to get across with all my rambling is that the weapons Pixel chose to make mandatory were few and varied enough so that I was never bothered by their inclusion. I feel that the upside to making them necessary to benefit first time players and widen your arsenal with weapons that aren't redundant outweighs the downside of giving you slightly less customizability during your later playthroughs of the game.

 

I've had a few thoughts about the mandatory weapons, but I never saw it as a detractor. Tpcool did a pretty good job of summarizing why those default weapons do a good job of covering the basic necessities for being effective in combat.

I have to disagree with you on the fireball, Shinypoke. I think it's a really useful weapon in Grasstown and the Sand Zone. It helps you barrel through enemies more rapidly and at a longer distance than the Polar Star, especially if you skipped the missile launcher. And not only slopes, but other weird types of corners and drop-offs are easier to get around with the fireball. It also does more damage than the Polar Star, which makes it better for taking out bosses if you can get in a good position and button mash.

 

It's hard to make that argument for, say, the Bubbler because it feels a lot more niche and cumbersome to use than the others. Missiles already have ammo, so they never really felt very all-purpose or necessary in the first place (and you have the Blade to compensate for it later on anyway). The others are somewhat redundant because of the similar firing pattern to the Polar Star.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to get across with all my rambling is that the weapons Pixel chose to make mandatory were few and varied enough so that I was never bothered by their inclusion. I feel that the upside to making them necessary to benefit first time players and widen your arsenal with weapons that aren't redundant outweighs the downside of giving you slightly less customizability during your later playthroughs of the game.

Yeah I get you. I guess because I don't personally value the Fireball much it bothered me more. Personally I actually find the Bubbler to be more useable and reliable funny enough. Maybe I'm just weird, but I always thought it was just as or more useful than the Fireball because of the way it combines offense and defense. The Bubbler makes me feel invincible especially in earlier areas.

Honestly the Bubbler has always been one of my favorites (and was my favorite for a bit even). I feel like the Blade's ability to deal out great damage makes it more valuable too along with the sentimental value of it so I can justify that to myself more at least.

Regardless it's not really that big a deal anyway and the customizability of the game is still one of my favorite aspects of Cave Story when I replay it.

I've had a few thoughts about the mandatory weapons, but I never saw it as a detractor. Tpcool did a pretty good job of summarizing why those default weapons do a good job of covering the basic necessities for being effective in combat.

I have to disagree with you on the fireball, Shinypoke. I think it's a really useful weapon in Grasstown and the Sand Zone. It helps you barrel through enemies more rapidly and at a longer distance than the Polar Star, especially if you skipped the missile launcher. And not only slopes, but other weird types of corners and drop-offs are easier to get around with the fireball. It also does more damage than the Polar Star, which makes it better for taking out bosses if you can get in a good position and button mash.

I agree it is really useful in Grasstown and Sand Zone, but like I said my problem with it is it becomes pretty much worthless to me past that point. Once I get to the Labyrinth I never fell like using the Fireball again, but maybe there are areas in levels I could have used it that I didn't notice would be a good place for it.

I haven't actually used it to mash out damage against bosses before. What bosses do you think it's useful against? I do think it's very good against Balfrog and Toroko.

 

Are the three "mandatory" weapons polar star, blade and fireball? (and i guess either of the missile launchers at some point)
I'm assuming he might have added it in in case someone was like "time to grab this cool sword thing" and then misses the sword and accidentally exits the door. Imagine how frustrating that would be....


As for the fireball I'm not really sure why that one was mandatory, and I didn't even think it was until recently
Maybe it's required because he wanted to make sure at that point in case new players really did not know what they were doing they would at least have a second weapon to stop them from thinking that the polar star was the only gun in the game (if they also missed the missile launcher as well)

I still use fireball to take out the heavy presses in the final cave sometimes and on some of the bosses (curly, omega), but I guess the main weapons I use throughout the game would be polar star, then blade, then spur

 

I think the Fireball and Blade were always mandatory although I may be wrong. The Missile Launcher isn't required. I make a point to avoid it until at least endgame. I could see that being the reason the Blade is required. It is right by the door.

 

I haven't actually used it to mash out damage against bosses before. What bosses do you think it's useful against? I do think it's very good against Balfrog and Toroko.

I think it's useful against Curly because you can get up close and button mash and do damage more quickly. I also find the fireball useful with Omega. One trick you can do is before Omega comes up, stand right next to where Omega will come up, shoot a bunch of fireballs straight up so that they will settle right down on where Omage will come up so that you have time to switch to another weapon and can hit it with 2 weapons at once.

 

Fireball is useful against most of the early bosses.

 

I think it's useful against Curly because you can get up close and button mash and do damage more quickly. I also find the fireball useful with Omega. One trick you can do is before Omega comes up, stand right next to where Omega will come up, shoot a bunch of fireballs straight up so that they will settle right down on where Omage will come up so that you have time to switch to another weapon and can hit it with 2 weapons at once.

Ohhhh that's really cool! That's still before the Labyrinth but I'd love to try that. Thanks a bunch for the tip!

Come to think of it maybe the FB could be useful against the Doctor. I usually use the Blade and/or Snake but that could work too maybe. Also maybe it could be useful with the Machine Gun if you drop some fireballs down while up in the air raining bullets on someone.

 

Arguably, the fireball can be useful in the Labyrinth as well. Due to the sharp corners where not even shooting the polar star or the blade would even help take out the Gaudis in those areas. It's a far better tactic than being the hero and risk getting damage by shooting them from above. That tactic can also be said and done for the top area in the Living Waterway.

And, thanks to a certain Cave Story mod by a blue cat, the fireball can actually be a fun weapon against the Red Demon, and the hidden critters you're not too sure if they're in the lava or not, which may be more of a reason to farm for all of your weapons in either Last Cave.

 

I've never really been bothered by the mandatory weapons, mostly because I find myself using them at least for a stage following where I received them or in the same stage. And even if I don't use a weapon later on, I don't find it a big deal to just change past it. That being said, weapon changing can be a bit of a jumble, especially in the later, more frantic stages and I'll even admit I've had many instances of wanting to switch to, say, the Nemesis or Missile Launcher but OOPS I end up changing to a level 1 Fireball/Bubbler to try and take out that super powerful boss/enemy before I remember I can just pull up the inventory.

I guess it's odd that you physically have to go to King and talk to him before obtaining the weapon rather than the event just playing out itself once you pass that particular point within the area. Storywise, those weapons feel like they have some sort of plot related purpose, what with the Fireball for the ignition of the bomb (maybe?) and the Blade for King. Heck, even the Gunsmith can have a bit of an arc when you obtain his Polar Star depending on if you keep that gun later in the game. Personally, because of this and just the fact that I do use the mandatory weapons for at least a couple stages following their obtainment, I can never recall a time when I was bothered by them. Those weapons can also go through transformations over the course of the game if you want them to, so it didn't feel like I had to lug around the same old weapons by the end of the game if I didn't want to. It never felt like what I had to do to get the mandatory weapons was super unreasonable, too.

At this point, though, I'm sure save files have been hacked and done over with to the point where you could just modify the game so that you don't have to get, say, the Fireball or Blade. In regards to the original game, however, a simple shooter is pretty standard to have in a Metroidvania and the Fireball and Blade are somewhat worked into the game's story. Perhaps the Blade's presentation could have been better executed?, but as a whole, mandatory weaponry was never a pet peeve of mine in Cave Story.

 

That being said, weapon changing can be a bit of a jumble, especially in the later, more frantic stages and I'll even admit I've had many instances of wanting to switch to, say, the Nemesis or Missile Launcher but OOPS I end up changing to a level 1 Fireball/Bubbler to try and take out that super powerful boss/enemy before I remember I can just pull up the inventory.

Right? That's exactly the reason having a weapon I'm not into kind of bothers me especially when I can't skip it. I was better at not doing that back when I played the Wii version. Trying to get better at it again.

Storywise, those weapons feel like they have some sort of plot related purpose, what with the Fireball for the ignition of the bomb (maybe?) and the Blade for King. Heck, even the Gunsmith can have a bit of an arc when you obtain his Polar Star depending on if you keep that gun later in the game. Personally, because of this and just the fact that I do use the mandatory weapons for at least a couple stages following their obtainment, I can never recall a time when I was bothered by them. Those weapons can also go through transformations over the course of the game if you want them to, so it didn't feel like I had to lug around the same old weapons by the end of the game if I didn't want to. It never felt like what I had to do to get the mandatory weapons was super unreasonable, too.

I never thought the Fireball was used to ignite the bomb I feel like if that was the intention Pixel would have made it clearer. I do agree both the Blade and Spur have pretty good story significance though. Ironically the PS's story is mainly about how you aren't required to have it.

I think if I could trade the FB for a weapon I maybe liked better (like the Bubbler or Machine Gun) without trading away my Polar Star I'd be more fine with it.

Cheating does fix the problem for me though, although I still think it's a bit of a design flaw that you're required to use it and the Blade (despite the Blade apparently not being important enough to no trade for a random gun). Though Tpcool brought up a good point that it might be because the Fireball is just useful for newcomers, especially since it's so early in the game.

Arguably, the fireball can be useful in the Labyrinth as well. Due to the sharp corners where not even shooting the polar star or the blade would even help take out the Gaudis in those areas. It's a far better tactic than being the hero and risk getting damage by shooting them from above. That tactic can also be said and done for the top area in the Living Waterway.

Oh well it's good to know it does still have it's uses. I should try that then. I might get through the area better. Is that the part of the Labyrinth with Curly?

 

I never thought the Fireball was used to ignite the bomb I feel like if that was the intention Pixel would have made it clearer. I do agree both the Blade and Spur have pretty good story significance though. Ironically the PS's story is mainly about how you aren't required to have it.

Yeah I've always liked that detail in regards to the Polar Star and the Gunsmith's reaction upon realizing you took it. Maybe the use of the Fireball as the final step of the bomb is a bit of a stretch, but I do kind of like to think of it in that way. Otherwise, how else would Quote be able to ignite his newly made explosive?

Cheating does fix the problem for me though, although I still think it's a bit of a design flaw that you're required to use it and the Blade (despite the Blade apparently not being important enough to no trade for a random gun). Though Tpcool brought up a good point that it might be because the Fireball is just useful for newcomers, especially since it's so early in the game.

I mean just because you are required to get said weapons does not mean you are required to use said weapons. I've seen people go through the entirety of Grasstown just fine without ever using the Fireball. As others have mentioned, these mandatory weapons still present a pretty diverse set of functions, good for newer players if they do happen to skip all the other optional weapons, I guess. Once a player gets used to switching between weapons with ease, I would imagine that carrying the set of required weapons becomes less of an issue. I guess the other problem with required weapons, as you said before, was just the fact that most of them have some sort of cutscene attached to them, but I dunno...in comparison to the fetch quests in the game or other various cutscenes, it doesn't seem like being required to get a few weapons is a really troublesome task. Perhaps if I play through the game now, such issues regarding mandatory weaponry will become more apparent.

 

Oh well it's good to know it does still have it's uses. I should try that then. I might get through the area better. Is that the part of the Labyrinth with Curly?

I haven't tried that there, admittedly. Though it could be useful against the Buyobuyo enemies (if Curly doesn't kill them). As for the rest of the Labyrinth, I know the areas before Chaba's shop, Dr. Gero, and Monster X are good places to use it in.

 

Personally, I use it in two areas of Hell depending on what tactic I'm using. The first is this one Bute that's on a slightly lower level than you, just in front of the area with the two Mesa's at the bottom and the Deleet at the top. Going down to shoot it means you'll probably get hit, so I bust out the Fireball there. Then there's the area right before the Heavy Press battle, where if I don't want to chance it with the final waves of Butes, I'll stand on the platform just under the missile expansion, and shoot the Fireball at the Deleets.

 

The fireball is very good actually

 

I find the Fireball to be as cumbersome as the Bubbler, it has it's uses and I enjoy it overall; but not something I'll be considering 24/7 during the 2nd half of the game, post Core. I'll probably be strategizing how to use the Blade and Spur to get around the more liner enemies in my path, and just spamming the Blade for enemies with wavy-like patterns like the Bat Generator in the Last Cave.

I also find the Nemesis to be a pretty lack luster weapons imo, the reverse leveling physics make it an overall pretty bad weapon, of course that's not to say the lvl 1 Nemesis isn't awesome; but with how much exp flies around constantly in this game, you'd be asking for trouble if you stuck to one on Hard Mode. I find the Blade a lot more fun for it's hitbox, damage output, and sentimental value, when I first played CS, I was motivated to avenge King; sure, you don't know much about him, but you care in the end. The guy just wanted to protect Toroko and hold-up the Blade in the village's honor and protection in similar vein to what we hear about Arthur, I became invested in that, to bring uphold a promise King couldn't keep (minor story rant), I really wished earlier on in the game he had more of a breakdown. Because, yea, he puts Sue in jail, but we don't see him go ALL the way; I would've loved to see him persist into the Sand Zone and be doing things like begging Jenka for the key, or possibly hurting Curly out of desperation for help or answers; because he slashes Balrog and gets oof-ed pretty quickly, I don't know, just stuff like that would've been cool. But overall, the Blade is a great weapon, and I do agree with y'all, it's a good weapon to be stuck with.

 

Does Kero Blaster have metroidvania elements? I thought it was mainly a run and gun game like Contra or Cuphead, unless there's more that I missed.