• Most people probably don't realise this, but this forum has had two editors for a number of years. One is the xenForo default editor, and the other is a custom editor I made years back I called BBCEd.

    All the settings for which editor you use was lost during the upgrade. You can find the setting under Account Settings > Preferences > Editor.

CSTSF Modding Competition 2017 - Submission and Discussion Thread

Old topic!
The last post in this thread is over 60 days old. Posting in this thread will be considered a bump, so please make an attempt to be courteous if you go ahead with it.

If the last post is over 6 months old, it may instead be a better idea to start a new topic. If you aren't sure about what to do, feel free to ask a staff member for help, or try to locate a 'general questions'-type thread if it exists in this (sub-)forum.
Apr 2, 2017 at 1:46 PM
Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
CSE Discord Moderator
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1521
Age: 119
#41
I may come up with something. Most of my modding 'attempts' have been me screwing around with just the basic stuff. Expect the (un)expected.
The more entries the better. ;)
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 1:25 AM
Everything Else Is Irrelevant
Modding Community Discord Founder
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Apr 5, 2013
Location: In my mind and of my body.
Posts: 1596
Age: 22
#42
I took some time to muse over this before deciding to say anything in formal writing.

I first must strongly disagree with this contest, Because it's a "no ASM" contest.

It's no secret that I along with most other modders use at least some amount of ASM in out mods; but to completely throw it out basically is asking all the veteran modders to sit this contest out; we've been around so long that using these ASM hacks are second nature to us and are a part of the engine itself and we cannot use it without these enhancements.

It's how we build the mods and you greatly hinder our ability to perform without them. Why should be be punished for putting all our skills into one of the hardest aspects of modding? You want a "equal" playing field but by doing this you're creating just the opposite. I wouldn't mind this idea nearly as much if you presented this as a side contest and our community was at least 5 times as large as it currently is. It would justify having a "kiddie pool" contest to encourage new modders to compete against each other because they are actually likely to get 3rd second or even first place. But this is only a pipe dream because nobody doesn't know ASM anymore that still mods It's not in the current meta anymore, After Carrotlord, my own and Thomas Xin's Guides; CS ASM is easier to get into than ever; and if you want to complain that you're at a disadvantage it's your own fault.

Doors, Dunc, Nox, Thomas Xin, TPcool, TLink, Myself, Kenni, GiR, Yinga, and others all use ASM because we've been around long enough and cared enough to get this shit down so that the engine is more manipulable and we have a more open canvas.

You want people to use existing NPC's; but I as well as others (I'd assume anyway) don't even KNOW what the vanilla enemies are anymore let alone how to use them in creative ways anymore. (Such as EO's gif of the curtains pulling back)

What were the <ANP's to the Curly NPC again? I forgot because I only use my better coded more flexible one now that's a lot easier to customize for each mod's needs...



TL;DR Nice try kid, but you gotta get up to our level if you wanna play with the big boys, not change the rules to drag us down. It sucks that "so you came" didn't score well because of a few small but important mistakes were made, even though the playtime was more than double of most entries, and had new art and decent scripting/concepts. But you've gotta realize your faults and stop pointing fingers at others claiming that ASM is broken and unfair to others that are too lazy to learn it. This isn't 2009; the meta has evolved.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 2:01 AM
Professional Whatever
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 13, 2011
Location: Lasagna
Posts: 4489
#43
please don't drag me into this
i don't have a problem with having a theme that's less asm focused i just think that zxin is too strict about it
plus you're sounding EXTREMELY elitist in general here
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 2:08 AM
Assistance
"All your forum are belong to us!"
Join Date: May 7, 2009
Location:
Posts: 552
#44
let's all buckle down here and get a fan going and realize that some people can get too excited for shit that shouldn't be happening yet.
Wait until elementary school is released in June, then start setting up the tents and lights, it's too early for the circus to begin. Leave it up to the bigwigs.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 3:12 AM
Lvl 1
Forum Moderator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: May 28, 2008
Location: PMMM MMO
Posts: 3712
Age: 27
#45
It's how we build the mods and you greatly hinder our ability to perform without them.

I as well as others (I'd assume anyway) don't even KNOW what the vanilla enemies are anymore let alone how to use them in creative ways anymore. (Such as EO's gif of the curtains pulling back)

Nice try kid, but you gotta get up to our level if you wanna play with the big boys, not change the rules to drag us down.
I'm just here to say that this post was one of the most unintentionally hilarious things that I've read on the forums in a long, long time.
 
Last edited:
Apr 5, 2017 at 5:52 AM
Eevee Enthusiast
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Mar 26, 2014
Location: Somewhere with Wi-Fi
Posts: 549
Age: 22
#46
I took some time to muse over this before deciding to say anything in formal writing.

I first must strongly disagree with this contest, Because it's a "no ASM" contest.

It's no secret that I along with most other modders use at least some amount of ASM in out mods; but to completely throw it out basically is asking all the veteran modders to sit this contest out; we've been around so long that using these ASM hacks are second nature to us and are a part of the engine itself and we cannot use it without these enhancements.

It's how we build the mods and you greatly hinder our ability to perform without them. Why should be be punished for putting all our skills into one of the hardest aspects of modding? You want a "equal" playing field but by doing this you're creating just the opposite. I wouldn't mind this idea nearly as much if you presented this as a side contest and our community was at least 5 times as large as it currently is. It would justify having a "kiddie pool" contest to encourage new modders to compete against each other because they are actually likely to get 3rd second or even first place. But this is only a pipe dream because nobody doesn't know ASM anymore that still mods It's not in the current meta anymore, After Carrotlord, my own and Thomas Xin's Guides; CS ASM is easier to get into than ever; and if you want to complain that you're at a disadvantage it's your own fault.

Doors, Dunc, Nox, Thomas Xin, TPcool, TLink, Myself, Kenni, GiR, Yinga, and others all use ASM because we've been around long enough and cared enough to get this shit down so that the engine is more manipulable and we have a more open canvas.

You want people to use existing NPC's; but I as well as others (I'd assume anyway) don't even KNOW what the vanilla enemies are anymore let alone how to use them in creative ways anymore. (Such as EO's gif of the curtains pulling back)

What were the <ANP's to the Curly NPC again? I forgot because I only use my better coded more flexible one now that's a lot easier to customize for each mod's needs...



TL;DR Nice try kid, but you gotta get up to our level if you wanna play with the big boys, not change the rules to drag us down. It sucks that "so you came" didn't score well because of a few small but important mistakes were made, even though the playtime was more than double of most entries, and had new art and decent scripting/concepts. But you've gotta realize your faults and stop pointing fingers at others claiming that ASM is broken and unfair to others that are too lazy to learn it. This isn't 2009; the meta has evolved.
This "meta" talk is causing me pain on several different levels. Also, how much better are you really if you can't figure out how to creatively use the assets already provided to you?
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:24 AM
Sleepyhead
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 697
Age: 21
#47
This competition would've been a lot more better if minor asm changes(like just changing a simple value) are allowed, but not major hacks.
If you are angry that you can't join because major ASM is not allowed and you can't work without it, then you are probably being too dependand on it.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:26 AM
Catz R cool
Modding Community Discord Moderator
"..."
Join Date: Nov 23, 2015
Location: Somewhere within a world far away from reality...
Posts: 381
Age: 19
#48
This "meta" talk is causing me pain on several different levels. Also, how much better are you really if you can't figure out how to creatively use the assets already provided to you?
It's one thing to give people a modcon to work on, starting with the vanilla exe. It's another thing altogether to PREVENT others from using a specialized technique, especially one that they spent most of their time dedicated into learning, to make a mod better.

I have to agree with BLink on this one.
 
Last edited:
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:44 AM
Best elf
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jun 27, 2013
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 2116
Age: 24
#49
Doors, Dunc, Nox, Thomas Xin, TPcool, TLink, Myself, Kenni, GiR, Yinga, and others
Nox, Thomas Xin, Myself, and Kenni

FTFY

I wasn't here, you didn't see anything
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:45 AM
Eevee Enthusiast
"Big Joe Tire and Battery Restaurant! Opening Soon! Eat at Big Joes!"
Join Date: Mar 26, 2014
Location: Somewhere with Wi-Fi
Posts: 549
Age: 22
#50
It's one thing to give people a modcon to work on, starting with the vanilla exe. It's another thing altogether to PREVENT others from using a specialized technique, especially one that they spent most of their time dedicated into learning, to make a mod better.

I have to agree with BLink on this one.
You managed to completely miss the point I was trying to make, though with it being you I'm not surprised. It isn't about being good at assembly hacking. It's about becoming so entangled in it that you forget (or never learn) the basics. That's the whole point of this theme: the basics. I'll reiterate that its limitation is a little too tight for my liking, but it's not inherently a bad theme.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:47 AM
Catz R cool
Modding Community Discord Moderator
"..."
Join Date: Nov 23, 2015
Location: Somewhere within a world far away from reality...
Posts: 381
Age: 19
#51
You managed to completely miss the point I was trying to make, though with it being you I'm not surprised. It isn't about being good at assembly hacking. It's about becoming so entangled in it that you forget (or never learn) the basics. That's the whole point of this theme: the basics. I'll reiterate that its limitation is a little too tight for my liking, but it's not inherently a bad theme.
Yes, but in that case you'd ENCOURAGE other aspects (like giving extra points for better level design), not BAN the use of ASM. This is just completely ridiculous.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 6:48 AM
Perfectionist
CS Beta Content Discord Admin
CSE Discord Moderator
"Bleep, Bloop, Bleep, Bloop"
Join Date: Dec 26, 2014
Location: the back of their own hand.
Posts: 1521
Age: 119
#52
This competition would've been a lot more better if minor asm changes(like just changing a simple value) are allowed, but not major hacks.
If you are angry that you can't join because major ASM is not allowed and you can't work without it, then you are probably being too dependand on it.
Yes I do agree that putting ALL assembly hacks off limit was a bit crazy, but then where do you draw the line with a small assembly hack? Some hacks are millions of lines long, but make very small differences to a mod. And some are tiny, but make everything play completely differently.

We could argue about this for hours and days; but ultimately this mod competition is a chance for those who never relied on assembly to thrive, and a chance those who've always used assembly to cast it aside for a while and work on something that utilises the vast potential of Cave Story's external files. You can do so much by just modifying a few values in the NPC table, using special flags, reskinning an enemy and using it for something unexpected. I love use of assembly in modern mods, but EnlightenedOne and many others can do without it.
I have realized that my own dependence on assembly now is greater than ever. But not long ago -- even when I was still creating N.E.T. Story II -- I barely used any assembly hacks. I just barely started editing the NPC.tbl, and yet I could still do so much.
I think Seasons said it best:
You managed to completely miss the point I was trying to make, though with it being you I'm not surprised. It isn't about being good at assembly hacking. It's about becoming so entangled in it that you forget (or never learn) the basics. That's the whole point of this theme: the basics. I'll reiterate that its limitation is a little too tight for my liking, but it's not inherently a bad theme.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 8:16 AM
Lvl 1
Forum Moderator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: May 28, 2008
Location: PMMM MMO
Posts: 3712
Age: 27
#53
It's another thing altogether to PREVENT others from using a specialized technique, especially one that they spent most of their time dedicated into learning, to make a mod better.
Well maybe you could see this as a way to step outside your comfort zone, instead of relying on the same crutch for every mod you make. Is it anyone's fault that you haven't dedicated time to learning other skills besides ASM? Should you not take this opportunity to sharpen those other skills?

This rule wasn't made to "punish" ASM hackers but to have less of a focus on ASM hacks in the contest, which have a tendency to dominate since they're "fresh" and "new". But there's more to modding than just adding new functionality to the code.

And FYI no one's preventing you from ASM hacking. Entering this contest is not mandatory.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 8:31 AM
Sleepyhead
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 697
Age: 21
#54
Yes I do agree that putting ALL assembly hacks off limit was a bit crazy, but then where do you draw the line with a small assembly hack?
I'm mostly referring to changing a single value, or the simple things related to maps and npcs that bl can do on it's own.
Telling people not to use things like OllyDbg, Doukutsu Assembler, BL's hacking tool or any such should be sufficient for this sort of competition, unless i'm mistaken.
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 10:33 AM
Catz R cool
Modding Community Discord Moderator
"..."
Join Date: Nov 23, 2015
Location: Somewhere within a world far away from reality...
Posts: 381
Age: 19
#55
I'm mostly referring to changing a single value, or the simple things related to maps and npcs that bl can do on it's own.
Telling people not to use things like OllyDbg, Doukutsu Assembler, BL's hacking tool or any such should be sufficient for this sort of competition, unless i'm mistaken.
But then I could pull a gamemanj and make my own assembler simply for this contest
Well maybe you could see this as a way to step outside your comfort zone, instead of relying on the same crutch for every mod you make. Is it anyone's fault that you haven't dedicated time to learning other skills besides ASM? Should you not take this opportunity to sharpen those other skills?

This rule wasn't made to "punish" ASM hackers but to have less of a focus on ASM hacks in the contest, which have a tendency to dominate since they're "fresh" and "new". But there's more to modding than just adding new functionality to the code.

And FYI no one's preventing you from ASM hacking. Entering this contest is not mandatory.
Yeah but I want to show off my ASM in contests so people actually play my mod, and if it wasn't supposed to be a punish for ASM coding, it'd be 'ASM gets you less points in this contest' rather than 'no executable changes or you're disqualified'.
 
Last edited:
Apr 5, 2017 at 10:58 AM
Sleepyhead
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 697
Age: 21
#56
But then I could pull a gamemanj and make my own assembler simply for this contest
Why do you think I said "things like OllyDbg, Doukutsu Assembler, BL's hacking tool or any such"
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 11:17 AM
Catz R cool
Modding Community Discord Moderator
"..."
Join Date: Nov 23, 2015
Location: Somewhere within a world far away from reality...
Posts: 381
Age: 19
#57
Why do you think I said "things like OllyDbg, Doukutsu Assembler, BL's hacking tool or any such"
That means hex editors are okay, right? Well it's possible (although extremely tedious) to write ASM in hex editors too
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 11:31 AM
Sleepyhead
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 697
Age: 21
#58
...I think you're missing the point a little here, but I suppose an easy way to do it would be to just let people only edit the exe with the three cs editors (CE, BL and SW if you're courageous enough) and Resource Hacker. But ban BL's hacking tool and hex patcher..
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 11:48 AM
Catz R cool
Modding Community Discord Moderator
"..."
Join Date: Nov 23, 2015
Location: Somewhere within a world far away from reality...
Posts: 381
Age: 19
#59
...I think you're missing the point a little here, but I suppose an easy way to do it would be to just let people only edit the exe with the three cs editors (CE, BL and SW if you're courageous enough) and Resource Hacker. But ban BL's hacking tool and hex patcher..
How about you're allowed to ASM, but any ASM hacks must be your own and made after the start of the contest.
This is more fair IMO
 
Apr 5, 2017 at 11:52 AM
Sleepyhead
"In Soviet Russia, graves keep YOU!"
Join Date: Jul 20, 2015
Location: Under sea level or something
Posts: 697
Age: 21
#60
How about you're allowed to ASM, but any ASM hacks must be your own and made after the start of the contest.
This is more fair IMO
That still removes the challenge of trying to make a mod without doing asm, which is what zxin may be aiming at.
Sometimes you just gotta learn to work with the resources you have, so you can prove yourself more.
 
Top