Cave Story Prequel

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Feb 19, 2014 at 11:45 AM
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Since JPEG is now out of the picture, here is some info on PNG vs. BMP:
Personally, I always go with PNG over BMP for everything. I don't use JPEG unless I need a picture on a device that does not support PNG (like my crappy MP3 player). PNG will be a smaller file size than a BMP file of the same dimensions (there may be a few exceptions, like a tiny monochrome BMP or something). However, what I am unsure of is if MMF2 works quicker with BMP or PNG. It may have to uncompress the PNG format or something. I really haven't looked into it enough to know, I've just read a bit here and there about how some programs do better with BMP than PNG. I recall something to do with Direct X needing PNG to be uncompressed, which takes processing time, so in the end BMP was the way to go. I'm a bit skeptical of this really slowing things down in the end though, so take it with a grain of salt. All I know is that PNG is usually faster to load and it will not lose any quality at all and it's generally a much more intelligent format than BMP. One example is how it saves colors. The more colors you use, the bigger the file size will be, so it's real good for sprites that use only a few colors. BMP isn't nearly as flexible in this way so it can waste space needlessly. Also, PNG can have transparency values stored in the file itself. BMP can't. Though most programs let you choose a solid color to make transparent, so that one isn't such a big deal and probably means nothing to MMF2 usage, but it sure is useful for using on the internet. And PNG can have multiple levels of transparency, as opposed to just solid color and invisible, so you can do some nice glowing effects and stuff (Paint.NET is a nice little free program that can achieve this stuff). I don't know much else. Also, saving a JPEG into a PNG will still save the nasty artifacts, so you want sprites that are saved in a lossless format to maintain everything. And blur is the mortal enemy of sprites, especially pixel art (i.e. where each pixel must be perfect to maintain the correct detail). Blur = destruction and chaos and sad bunny cats. Yes, bunny cats. Please don't make them sad.

Finally, good luck with your fan game! ^^

EDIT:
You should try using somewhere around 3 shades of each color for your sprites. Just look at how many shades of each color Cave Story sprites use and try to match it. It should help.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 12:03 PM
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The sprite is better, but what in god's name happened to the crown
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM
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That's a lot better, but it needs less colours and more shading, by which I mean there are too many colours. Basically, look at how simple cave story's sprites are and where they've got shading, and copy that.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 4:22 PM
Been here way too long...
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Noxid said:
you shouldn't be
it's not a big deal but I would like the /others/ to exercise a little critical thinking about what should be shared and what shouldn't
i am aware I am a hypocrite.
well I for one insist on keeping my insults where the person can see them
making fun of people behind their back is completely unfair, in my opinion
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 4:35 PM
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The new Miakid certainly looks much more intimidating than the first, especially considering the consistent proportions and glowing red eyes this time around. Maybe try incorporating some lighting into the sprite (other than the predetermined parts), like his torso and legs. Some parts look a bit...muddled though. ie: His torso is mostly obscuring his hands, the crown is strangely blurrier than the original, and yes, as FrozenFire said, try keeping the shades of color limited to solve said problem, and try applying lighting.
Also,
And miakids mouth is actually on his chin. Look at a picture.
I don't think anyone disagreed with that statement, that is, unless you were referring to the original Cave Story sprite instead.

But yeah, looks much better now. Keep up the work, you're getting there.

EDIT:
Actually now that I think about it, the texture looks very Minecraft-esque, as opposed to Cave Story.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 4:54 PM
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FrozenFire said:
Since JPEG is now out of the picture, here is some info on PNG vs. BMP:
Personally, I always go with PNG over BMP for everything. I don't use JPEG unless I need a picture on a device that does not support PNG (like my crappy MP3 player). PNG will be a smaller file size than a BMP file of the same dimensions (there may be a few exceptions, like a tiny monochrome BMP or something). However, what I am unsure of is if MMF2 works quicker with BMP or PNG. It may have to uncompress the PNG format or something. I really haven't looked into it enough to know, I've just read a bit here and there about how some programs do better with BMP than PNG. I recall something to do with Direct X needing PNG to be uncompressed, which takes processing time, so in the end BMP was the way to go. I'm a bit skeptical of this really slowing things down in the end though, so take it with a grain of salt. All I know is that PNG is usually faster to load and it will not lose any quality at all and it's generally a much more intelligent format than BMP. One example is how it saves colors. The more colors you use, the bigger the file size will be, so it's real good for sprites that use only a few colors. BMP isn't nearly as flexible in this way so it can waste space needlessly. Also, PNG can have transparency values stored in the file itself. BMP can't. Though most programs let you choose a solid color to make transparent, so that one isn't such a big deal and probably means nothing to MMF2 usage, but it sure is useful for using on the internet. And PNG can have multiple levels of transparency, as opposed to just solid color and invisible, so you can do some nice glowing effects and stuff (Paint.NET is a nice little free program that can achieve this stuff). I don't know much else. Also, saving a JPEG into a PNG will still save the nasty artifacts, so you want sprites that are saved in a lossless format to maintain everything. And blur is the mortal enemy of sprites, especially pixel art (i.e. where each pixel must be perfect to maintain the correct detail). Blur = destruction and chaos and sad bunny cats. Yes, bunny cats. Please don't make them sad.

Finally, good luck with your fan game! ^^

EDIT:
You should try using somewhere around 3 shades of each color for your sprites. Just look at how many shades of each color Cave Story sprites use and try to match it. It should help.
PNG is generally better/faster than BMP these days, since although it takes time to decode the PNG into a raw raster format, that's normally outweighed these days by the load time for BMP (a bigger file takes longer to load).
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 5:04 PM
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funwillfunwill said:
And miakids mouth is actually on his chin. Look at a picture.
And now to teach you about proportion.
Of course his mouth looks like it's on his chin because the original sprite is too small. In the CS+ sprite, because there's more room, his mouth is well above his chin, making it it more proportionally correct. However, in the old sprite you made, you made the head large enough to move the mouth upward, but you left it in its original spot just because you say it looks right. Well, compared to the original sprite, your older sprite's head was too big, whereas the original sprite has a much smaller head, so it's needed to move his mouth upward.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 5:53 PM
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funwillfunwill said:
Oops
And these idiots need to know that they are not final graphics.
And miakids mouth is actually on his chin. Look at a picture.
Ok haters, here is the newer, less ugly miakid
The Crown seems horribly distorted but I'm not gonna get into that.

What I am going to get into, however, is his noise...why is he so noisy?

Look at the doctors sprites:



They're all very smooth. Single, flat colors. Very clean.

Yours, on the other hand, looks like you did this:

and called it done.

I'd seriously suggest toning down the noise completely. He doesn't need to be that noisy.
 
Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 PM
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PolarStarGames said:
Yours, on the other hand, looks like you did this:

and called it done.

I'd seriously suggest toning down the noise completely. He doesn't need to be that noisy.
I'm pretty sure that this is the result of him saving it as a jpg, since jpg compression does terrible things to sprites like this.
 
Feb 22, 2014 at 12:15 PM
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FrozenFire said:
Since JPEG is now out of the picture, here is some info on PNG vs. BMP:
Personally, I always go with PNG over BMP for everything. I don't use JPEG unless I need a picture on a device that does not support PNG (like my crappy MP3 player). PNG will be a smaller file size than a BMP file of the same dimensions (there may be a few exceptions, like a tiny monochrome BMP or something). However, what I am unsure of is if MMF2 works quicker with BMP or PNG. It may have to uncompress the PNG format or something. I really haven't looked into it enough to know, I've just read a bit here and there about how some programs do better with BMP than PNG. I recall something to do with Direct X needing PNG to be uncompressed, which takes processing time, so in the end BMP was the way to go. I'm a bit skeptical of this really slowing things down in the end though, so take it with a grain of salt. All I know is that PNG is usually faster to load and it will not lose any quality at all and it's generally a much more intelligent format than BMP. One example is how it saves colors. The more colors you use, the bigger the file size will be, so it's real good for sprites that use only a few colors. BMP isn't nearly as flexible in this way so it can waste space needlessly. Also, PNG can have transparency values stored in the file itself. BMP can't. Though most programs let you choose a solid color to make transparent, so that one isn't such a big deal and probably means nothing to MMF2 usage, but it sure is useful for using on the internet. And PNG can have multiple levels of transparency, as opposed to just solid color and invisible, so you can do some nice glowing effects and stuff (Paint.NET is a nice little free program that can achieve this stuff). I don't know much else. Also, saving a JPEG into a PNG will still save the nasty artifacts, so you want sprites that are saved in a lossless format to maintain everything. And blur is the mortal enemy of sprites, especially pixel art (i.e. where each pixel must be perfect to maintain the correct detail). Blur = destruction and chaos and sad bunny cats. Yes, bunny cats. Please don't make them sad.

Finally, good luck with your fan game! ^^

EDIT:
You should try using somewhere around 3 shades of each color for your sprites. Just look at how many shades of each color Cave Story sprites use and try to match it. It should help.
Thanks for the help! I needed it. And MMF2 uses it's own runtime. Unfortunately it converts all file types into native JPEG, so I must draw them all enlarged or else they will become more blurry than they should be if I enlarged the small sprites.
A new gameplay vid will come soon.

...
Come on people, reply!
 
Feb 22, 2014 at 3:34 PM
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Did you remove your avatar?

And it's up to you to get more people to reply. Posting more content would help, for one.
 
Feb 22, 2014 at 5:04 PM
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Here is a screenshot of inside a prefab house. The robot is not Malco, but a different robot who has not been named yet.
 

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Feb 22, 2014 at 5:22 PM
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you really need to work on your map making skills tbh
 
Feb 22, 2014 at 8:39 PM
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funwillfunwill said:
Here is a screenshot of inside a prefab house. The robot is not Malco, but a different robot who has not been named yet.
Oh...god...I feel a little sick looking at that.

I'm going to point out what's wrong with it so you can understand why looking at that makes me physically ill.

1. EVERYTHING IS UNALIGNED.



What the hell is going on here? Why are the blocks so out of place? Are you not placing things on a grid?



Also for some reason the entire house's floor is SLANTED and I feel like whoever paid to have that house built should ask for their money back.

2. WHAT



Is this a screenshot of the game cut up and saved as a jpeg? You know you can...open the spritesheets in the games files, right?

3. AAAAAAAAA



Why is Malco (or my original-character-robot) so big? Why is the CHEST so big? Why is everything so big and small compared to Quote?
Did Quote shrink since his last adventure? (Or since this is a prequel, does he somehow inflate between your picture and CaveStory?)

4. Map Design



The level design for this room is awful. Horrible, even. You used a single repeating tile for the background? A single tile? None of the rooms in CaveStory were this dull, and no Jpeg bookshelf can fix that. Also wHY IS IT SO TALL ALSO YOU DID THE EXACT SAME THING WITH THE FLOOR

5. EVERYTHING IS A JPEG. EVERYTHING. WEIRD BLURRY EDGES ON EACH SPRITE MAKES ME WANT TO GAG, so I'd suggest using any program that isn't Microsoft Paint, and for the love of god listen to our advice and don'tttttt save ANYTHING as a Jpeg or my eyes might roll out of my head.
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 12:01 AM
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Seeing the level map make me think of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBl5rT54LA
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 12:32 AM
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I have to admit, that's a pretty accurate comparison. As a piece of constructive criticism, I suggest you change that robot sprite if it's not already a placeholder. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE DON'T USE JPEGS THOSE OUTLINES ARE KILLING ME, I DIDN'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHY EVERYONE HERE HATES JPEGS BUT IF THIS IS WHAT IT CAUSES THEN DON'T USE THEM.
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 1:02 PM
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I am using gifs, not jpegs.
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 1:10 PM
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use a png jesus christ
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 2:50 PM
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I'm betting he just took all the jpegs he already had and saved them as gif
 
Feb 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM
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Noxid said:
I'm betting he just took all the jpegs he already had and saved them as gif
Nope.
 
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