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Another Jenka's Nightmare remake

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Jan 16, 2013 at 10:00 PM
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#1
After this lovely dibate, I've decided I'm going to work on Jenka's Nightmare. You can begin sighing and rolling your eyes if you want.

To be frank, I really liked Jenka's Nightare (4 years ago), and was really hoping it (and several other mods) would be finished by now. But it seems it met the same fate as the dial-up modem, and so we sit here.

I had no problem with MagicDoor's version, in theory. But after careful analysis, the flaws far outweigh the highlights.


That said, the original mod was not perfect, by any means.


But something about the dialog flow and charm behind the mod, even in its incomplete state, drives me to believe it deserves a much better sequel than a sloppy one.

EDIT: To clarify, despite the topic's title, this is not a full remake of the game. Maps and events as they are will likely stay intact, however things that are poorly explained or sloppily done will be improved upon. This is as much a "remake" as MagicDoor's version was, but there will be a larger hand in improving the mod as a whole instead of just tacking on new events at the end.

This shall be the discussion topic. There will be a quote below with my own, and your contributed ideas for the mod. If you see an idea you don't like, feel free to discuss how it could be done better. The more contributions the forum puts forth, the better the final mod can become as a whole.

Elaborate on the intro to the game a bit; perhaps some exposit before Q/C/B are whisked away to the island.
Add more secrets.
Add rewards for sequence breaking.
Add a bonus area for players who find all the 'pieces' to a 'mirror'.
Add more expository dialog behind both the island and the areas available on the island.
Keep Ballos dead.
Keep King dead.
Keep Toroko dead.
Consider the original crew showing up as soon as the player reaches the 'surface'. (I mean seriously shouldn't they be concerned that Sue suddenly vanished?)
Finish the story
Finish the game
Add a cat room
 
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Jan 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM
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#2
It seems like your ideas coincide pretty well with the pre-existing mod. As this is the case, I'd suggest not making an entirely new "Revival" mod for a couple reasons.
1. We always assume that a new mod is going to be abandoned, at this point. You won't get much support, especially with another finished JN around. (And to be frank, you didn't make the best first impression.)
2. Modding is hard as hell. It took one hell of a long time to finish JNR, and essentially half of the game already existed at that point.

What I would suggest is modding JNR to fix what you want to fix. Though you've said what the bad parts were, you didn't make any suggestions on how to fix them. You clearly have some ideas in your head, why not implement them? It'd be far easier than creating an entirely new mod that will likely be very similar to the other one. If you want I'll even help you out with it, because I will readily agree with you saying that JNR sucks. As I said though, I don't want anyone making insults to the mod, nobody deserves that. Magic worked hard on JNR (as did I) for a long time, what he really would have wanted is constructive criticism, rather than just plain insults. You actually do seem like a pretty smart guy and I'd like to see what you could do with JNR. If you think this is a good idea, contact me on skype (same username) because I'd love to help.
 
Jan 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM
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#3
Dunc2403 said:
What I would suggest is modding JNR to fix what you want to fix.
I intend to fix and improve the game, as well as complete it. Both will come at roughly the same rate, because I want to make my 'version' of the mod have noticable changes from the getgo. Hence my, for example, "Elaborate on the intro to the game a bit" point. Rather than the game starting as a flustered warp-around-the-island, I'd instead opt to show Quote and Curly living together on a cliff-side shack somewhere, with the island only slightly visible over the horizon.

The warp-around-the-island intro works in theory, but not in practice. While we're told by a topic before playing the mod, or after wandering around a bit in the game, it isn't immediately clear that this is a sequel to the good-ending of the game, or even a sequel at all. Then simultaniously it expects you to have played and beaten the original game (a 8-year-old feat, I know) in order to play the mod without being confused beyond your wits.

If people desperately hate this change to the intro, I can change it back to as it is now. I'm just saying it'd be better to show the player this remake of the mod is worth while as opposed to having to play the game for 4 hours before any additional content (or before learning there is no "new" content at all).
 
Jan 17, 2013 at 1:40 AM
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#4
Actually that's a great idea, I never thought of changing the intro.
Well I do support this. I think it would be interesting to see someone else's take on the game's ending, and the game itself as a whole. If you want help with spriting or music or something, I might be able to help.


Based off of MagicDoor's poorly executed idea -- add a bonus area for players who find all the 'pieces' to a 'mirror'.
Of course I would appreciate it if you stopped insulting me. I mean it just sounds like you're trying to make me cry. Also my name is MagicDoors.

Anyway, good luck. If you decide to follow Dunc's suggestion or just start from scratch, I feel this would turn out well.

Also does this mean this mod is going to be called AJNR
 
Jan 17, 2013 at 3:21 AM
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#6
I've no problem with several of the original maps, so I'll try to keep those intact, albeit while adding some new secrets.

My first order of business is starting from a completely wiped CS file, though. Easier to start the mod's layout from scratch than trip over event and flag numbers, both default and JN.
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM
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#7
Or deleting all the off-topic posts. That works too.

Alright people, keep the discussion on-track following the first post. You can jizz at my return after the mod shows progress.

Another idea (which I'll add the the first post as well):

-> Loading a save file from the Prefab House (Hell entrance) in the original game will transfer some bonuses over. (If I can't decrease your HP, HP on its own may be the transfer (Meaning I'll have to change the HP you start the game with to compensate the balance, or lower the value of additional health tanks. Up for debate). However, I'll throw in some other bonus item(s) and flags depending on what your save file contained (Little man?).
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM
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#8
You can use ascii symbols other than integers to decrease health. Lace made a tutorial about it in "modding mini tutorials" thread. Off the top of my head I think ML+000/ decreases health by one.
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:10 PM
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#9
Why would ZarroTsu need to use ASCII cheapness when ZarroTsu already has x86 Assembly knowledge better than Pixel knows how to be super awesome?
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:11 PM
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#10
Still, a problem is the inability (I don't remember a lot of commands, so I might be wrong) to know exactly how much health the player does have at that moment. While I -could- decrease by 42 or something, if the player happened to have min-health ran the game, they'd suddenly have negative HP, or the game could crash.

Unless the HP has a minimum cap at 0 or 1? If that's the case I can -100 and +3 or something.
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:14 PM
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#11
Yes, and this is why CMP and the conditional JMP commands are required for sure.

HP has no cap and no minimum. Actually the minimum is -65536, and the maximum is 65535 (a 17 bit integer), but all that will be displayed is -9999 and 9999.
This is not helpful for what you are trying to do. The whimsical star counter takes up the rest of the 15 bits, making 32-bits for that particular chunk of memory.

Do you need me to hack it? I can do that. Alternatively, contact Noxid, GIR, Dubby, Landonpeanut, Lace, ManaFloors, or that one other guy... what was his... nevermind then.
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:23 PM
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#12
You can go negative.
Anyway, someone made a ML+ hack way back that let's you subtract and set health. I'd link it but I'm on a phone and school doesn't like the froums.

And carrot I was showing him the lazy/easy/efficient way. Why make a hack to have something that's already there
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 4:33 PM
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#13
For keeping track of how much hp you have, I'd just try to make use of flags somehow if you didn't want to x86.
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 5:02 PM
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#14
Dooey did this. It's very simple.
You can find the code on this forum somewhere...
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM
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#15
Actually a work-around comes to mind just to check what tank flags were set from the original game, then subtract by that tank's value. No ASM required.

Anyone have suggestions on what bonuses should be given if you do load a complete-data save file?
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 7:46 PM
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#16
The obvious choice would be an overpowered weapon. Unless you disapprove of game breaking using this new game + idea, you could grant an early booster or something.
If you feel like making more scenes you could make an alternate story/extra context scenes/other such secrets. Hidden diaries that appear explaining unknown parts of the story (like the one in the room where you get the booster 0.8)?
 
Jan 18, 2013 at 10:49 PM
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#17
Well I figure each individual item you COULD have could contribute a bonus. For example, if you had the snake, you could be given some ammunition tank that you could give to Chaba for more snake ammo (I'm aware you lose the snake after the fall out the bottom of the island, but there's no reason not to earn it back for realsies later in the game). Or if you had the little man you could return him to his family in this version for the Nemesis in this version, whereas doing so in the other version will either lock off the Nemesis, or give you a limited ammo version. Or, alternatively, if you returned the little man to his family but didn't take the nemisis, there could be a third outcome presented (or one of the two). Gotta figure out and balance it based on the chances of it happening. (I'd opt to say that 'keeping the little man at the end of the game' is the least common, but I could be wrong)

Health tanks you DIDN'T collect could also be made available on file load as well, so long as you are on the right map. If you DID collect them, however, maybe I'll give +1 life each as a bonus, whereas not collecting them would give the full bonus, but require finding them in a difficult location (Not that you'd have a problem with that if you 3-hp-ran the original game)
 
Jan 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM
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#18
ZarroTsu said:
(I'm aware you lose the snake after the fall out the bottom of the island, but there's no reason not to earn it back for realsies later in the game).

I guess I should mention this


Code:
#0346
<KEY<MSGOh my, you really shouldn't
keep your =Fireball= and your
=Glycerine= so close to each other,
you might explode!<NOD<CLRHmm, actually, that would be one
solution to the problem...<NOD Let me
see those.<YNJ0334<CLO<IT-0008<AM-0003
<SOU0004<WAI0050<SOU0004<WAI0050<SOU0022<WAI0050<AM+0001:0200
<GIT0001<MSG<CMU0010Got the =Snake=!<WAI0160<NOD<RMU<GIT0000<FL+2145<END
~Hermit Gunsmith, Jenka's Nightmare Map #40
 
Jan 19, 2013 at 1:10 AM
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#19

Man the gunsmith's gotta be bipolar or something. "Oh you stole my gun again? Fuck you, buddy! D:< Oh hey you have explosive shit? Here, have a new gun! :D"
 
Jan 19, 2013 at 1:13 AM
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#20
Code:
#0330
<FLJ2534:0331
<KEY<MSGOh, hello there. Fancy bumping
into you here.<NOD Still keeping that 
=Spur= busy?<NOD<CLRWhat? You didn't bring it to the 
island with you?<NOD Very well, I've
made a second =Polar Star=, it's
in the chest back in my cave...<NOD<CLRWHAT? You dropped it off the
island?!<NOD<CLR.<WAI0050.<WAI0050.<WAI0050.<WAI0050.<NOD<CLRWell, this just won't do at all.<NOD
I can't have my number one client
running around practically bare
handed.<NOD No sir. When people see
you in action, they have got to
know that your equipment is as
good as your skill.<NOD<CLRWe are both men of passion, and
as luck would have it, our
passions lay in the same 
direction.<NOD<CLRUnfortunately, I don't have
the materials on hand to make you
another weapon just now, being
stuck in this maze and all.<NOD
If you can find a =Pulse Core=<NOD,
=Focusing Lens=<NOD, and an
=Autocharger=<NOD, I think I can rig
something together.<NOD<CLRIf you come across any other 
interesting items, I might be able
to fix up your other weapons too.<NOD<FL+2534<END

What are you even talking about
 
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