About cave story 3D

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Jun 6, 2020 at 11:24 AM
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(some of you may remember me, so hello there old friends)
Yeah so as 3DS is basically dead by now, I'd decided to finally homebrew my little guy. One of the games I downloaded was cave story 3D, because I'm a big fan of cave story and I've always wanted to try this 3D version, although I much prefer pixel games. But now that I don't have to pay for it and regret doing so, why not try?
And boy
it's so bad.
I'm not going to talk about whether I like the 3D version's graphics (what I mean is, if I like the textures and models), because it's a matter of preference.
But I can't see a thing. Everything is so unclear. Quote is absolutely tiny, everything is dim and, what's the worst, detailed. It's one of the main principles of game design- too much detail means the player can't focus on what's really important, which in this example are spikes, quote and enemies.
I thought I'd play it for the music, because I kinda like the remixed soundtrack (I prefer the original one, but it's interesting), but for me the game is unplayable.
That's it I think, greetings to everyone and let me know what do you think about CS 3D.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 12:44 PM
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admittedly i haven't played it on original hardware, and i got a lot of lag in most of the maps so i have no comment on the gameplay itself - i don't think i had the same problem picking out where quote was, though i agree that it should've been less dim, so uhh:

pros:
- i loved some of the area redesigns - mimiga village, the plantation, first cave and egg corridor stand out, egg corridor is probably my favourite, even if the critters were the wrong colour (blue instead of green) and subsequently were really hard to see, i imagine it would've been worse on a small 3DS screen
- good soundtrack, i guess, to this day it's still my favourite version of the title theme
- no curly story (or wind fortress, i hate to think what the curly clones would look like in CS3D's style)

cons:
- models are really janky and the overall artstyle is kinda ugly (but that might just be personal taste, i'm not a fan of that weird realistic chibli style they went for), i know it's an early 3DS game and they had to stick to the original sprite proportions etc etc but the core is like... a floaty gas turd or something, instead of what i assume is some kinda sentient mossy rock (it doesn't even change colours between regular and undead??)
- the CS+ portrait ''''redraws'''' are shit - some are okay, i thought toroko's was alright, but jenka's looks hilariously bad, i don't know if it was just downscaled poorly or what
- extra health is weird
- there's only one soundtrack, you can't even switch to the original (funnily enough in the eshop port only the downscaled CS+ portraits are available, you can't switch to the original ones)
- a minor gripe before i launch into my big complaint: the bonus area after the undead core (falling tower or whatever it's called) has rabid mimiga, despite kazuma saying that destroying the core would turn them back to normal (also the bonus areas in general are just kinda... weird and annoying)
- okay, big complaint: the lack of animation for models. they just kinda snap between stiff poses, models interact with each other poorly (ie. igor carrying sue), and... there's no teleport animation, despite the fact that you get places by teleporting, misery shows up multiple times by teleporting into the room, and you later fight not only her, but the doctor in two seperate bossfights that revolve around them teleport spamming, so it's not like it's a minor animation???
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 1:25 PM
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i imagine it would've been worse on a small 3DS screen
Exactly. 3DS screen is like 800x240 pixels, and it's the size of half a smartphone screen. Idk how wide is your screen, I'm using a laptop right now, and here's a picture that's approx. the same size as my 3DS's screen:

1591446116212.png

or you can just use your imagination. Idk, as I said it's unplayable for me. I might have a bad sight or something.

BTW, I just thought it'd be cool if instead of making it 3D they made high quality textures like ori and the blind forest or hollow knight. Would've been cool.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 4:17 PM
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For what it is, Cave Story 3D can be appreciated, and to be honest, I actually really enjoy it, it's definitely better than the Wii port and Cave Story+. NIS America really took advantage of the 3D mode with Pixel's redesigns.
It is by all means not perfect, the Ironhead battle is much harder to do no-damage, especially if you're trying to go for a 100% run. And while there's only two modes (Normal and Classic), it at least excuses its reasoning for having an overall amount of 6 save files to use (unlike Curly Story, cough). And then there's the exclusive player skins for Classic mode in the Japanese version (nothing exclusive for us Americans?).
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 5:28 PM
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And while there's only two modes (Normal and Classic), it at least excuses its reasoning for having an overall amount of 6 save files to use (unlike Curly Story, cough)
This is just straight-up false. CS3D Story and Classic modes use the same save files, and Curly Story has always used its own save data.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 6:23 PM
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NIS America really took advantage of the 3D mode with Pixel's redesigns.
Wasn't Nisa only involved as far as publishing goes? I thought Nicalis was the developer on this.
I rarely see NIS do anything outside of RPGs to begin with anyway.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 6:27 PM
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This is just straight-up false. CS3D Story and Classic modes use the same save files, and Curly Story has always used its own save data.
Looks into my own copy

Holy shit, you're right! Now Classic Mode is just as bad as Curly Story.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 7:03 PM
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I remember in a interview, Tyrone mentioned the game was devolved in about 9 months, and for the first chunk they didn’t have 3Ds dev kits... so the game was fighting a downhill battle from the beginning.
 
Jun 6, 2020 at 11:00 PM
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The area graphics are beautiful, too bad they're as dark as Doom 64.

The character models would've been fine if they stuck with the line eyes and made better use of dynamic camera angles to give us a good look at the scenery and models (I.E when you first enter an area it gives a scenic shot, like Super Mario Sunshine)

...They really need to repurpose CS3D and give it a second life... with a few improvements, that is.
 
Jun 7, 2020 at 12:17 AM
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If CS 3d were to be on a larger screen with More detailed/ animated models It probably could work. I appreciate the new areas, It spices the game up. The life capsules are a bit excessive though.

Also Balrog just waving his arms without bat wings in the ending and all the credits mini scenes being not animated bugs the heck out of me.
 
Jun 7, 2020 at 1:01 AM
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tbh yeah, a remake of CS3D on, say, the switch, with better lighting, a better artstyle for the models as well as actual animations has the potential to be really good

oh! also something i didn't address in my original post; the loading screen between maps is fine usually but it completely ruins two certain cutscenes - the IM chat between sue and kazuma and the one that pans over all the areas in the island when it's falling in the normal ending. these cutscenes switch between maps every couple seconds, and the loading screen still shows up (as well as the music cutting out), which is really annoying and another thing i'm surprised they didn't prioritise sorting out (like the lack of a teleport animation)

edit: i also forgot to mention, but i do like the thing they did for the credits, where the 'final' artwork story-wise (flying away on balrog for best ending, kazuma and the sky dragon for normal) was modelled as faithfully to the original artwork as possible (same colour palette and character proportions/expressions as the original but put in a 3D environment), the other credit 'cutscenes' being still dioramas are eh (and understandable given the lack of development time, i guess), but i liked those two, at least
 
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Jun 7, 2020 at 1:32 AM
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I'll never forget that teaser Tyrone did displaying a picture of a new 3D model of Quote and people were asking if a Cave Story Switch port was coming, following a suit similar to CS3D. And then it was revealed there was a Switch port in the works, but it didn't have the 3D models in it. And then it turns out that same Quote model is for a very disappointing game...
 
Jun 7, 2020 at 2:57 AM
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oh! also something i didn't address in my original post; the loading screen between maps is fine usually but it completely ruins two certain cutscenes - the IM chat between sue and kazuma and the one that pans over all the areas in the island when it's falling in the normal ending. these cutscenes switch between maps every couple seconds, and the loading screen still shows up (as well as the music cutting out), which is really annoying and another thing i'm surprised they didn't prioritise sorting out (like the lack of a teleport animation)
This scene made me laugh at how the 3 second loading screens absolutley butchered the original game
Also, it was discovered that the "dont remove game saving" screen is just padding, the game saves just as quickly as the original
 
Jun 10, 2020 at 8:41 AM
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Does anyone know Cave Story 3D's FPS?
Is it actually 30 fps after the intro? I saw it on emu, and the crown cutscene and title screen ran a silky 60 fps, but soon as you start the game it locked to a solid 30 fps...
Looking at someone's hardware recording (below), it kind of looks like it could be the same? Can't say for certain...
(Set video to 60 fps playback, and look at how smooth the doctor walks in the prologue cutscene, then compare to any place after the title screen...)

And from an emu... looks the same to me, unless my eyes deceive me. (I think you can safely ignore the FPS in the corner of that video. I don't recognize that overlay... probably the recordings FPS?) Can anyone confirm the actual FPS of CS3D on the console?
 
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Jun 10, 2020 at 11:07 AM
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The wiki and aar's video both stated the game runs at 30 fps.
 
Jun 10, 2020 at 3:09 PM
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The wiki and aar's video both stated the game runs at 30 fps.
YUp, the game runs at 30 fps visually (it appears to run physics and input in 60fps, however)

tbh yeah, a remake of CS3D on, say, the switch, with better lighting, a better artstyle for the models as well as actual animations has the potential to be really good
fun fact: I managed to rip models from CS3D a while ago and they have a lot of detail that is just not visible in the size of a 3DS. It's very likely the team was not experienced with 3D at all, and also expected CS3D to be successful enough to use it as a base for future ports... which didn't happen.

It's also worth mentioning that CS3D has a bunch of interesting elements that make it worthwhile for a Cave Story fan: the new areas are quite well thought out, it has a much better map system than freeware or + ports, and it has the waterway cabin change that makes it easier to not miss cabin (and this change wasn't on any other port until Switch)

Oh, and if you're into speedrunning... we got some cool speedruns for Cave Story 3D. WE HAVE A REVERSE BOSS ORDER CATEGORY. And any% is currently just 3 minutes long.
 
Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM
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WE HAVE A REVERSE BOSS ORDER CATEGORY.
Nani desu ka? Is this achievable with the same save manipulation for the Beast Fang and Infinite Life Capsule exploit?
 
Jun 10, 2020 at 3:55 PM
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fun fact: I managed to rip models from CS3D a while ago .

WE HAVE A REVERSE BOSS ORDER CATEGORY. And any% is currently just 3 minutes long.
Were you the one uploading to models recource? Also, i have to look up this reverss boss order/ 3 min run
Edit:What the heck?!
 
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Jun 10, 2020 at 4:13 PM
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Nani desu ka? Is this achievable with the same save manipulation for the Beast Fang and Infinite Life Capsule exploit?
Turns out Inventory Quit (or Item Quit, as is better known in the CS3D community) is _really_ powerful. It can be used to set flags within game, get to plantation less than 7 minutes into the run, and several other major sequence breaks.

I could do an introductory thread to CS3D speedrunning (I'm married to Amber, WR holder in most categories)
 
Jun 10, 2020 at 4:50 PM
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I could do an introductory thread to CS3D speedrunning (I'm married to Amber, WR holder in most categories)
I've never really been one to speedrun, but I've always had an interest in seeing the techniques and mechanics runners work with, so by all means go for it! :D
 
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