Why did Sue survive?

Discussion in 'Theories' started by Flamefury, Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. Feb 17, 2012
    Flamefury
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    All the other rabid Mimigas you had to face needed to be killed. There was no saving Toroko or Igor or the generic Ravils (well, you could avoid the generics I guess).

    When Sue gets enraged, by the amazing Red Crystal no less, you beat her down in the same manner as you would the other rabid Mimiga. You can end the fight by only defeating the Undead Core, where it would make a little more sense, but it really makes no difference either way. Even if you blast her like crazy, she's completely fine once the Core is down.

    Perhaps it was the Doctor's magic that kept her enraged and then once he died, she was free. So I suppose it could be that Quote (at most) only knocked her out during the fight. Still, Quote wasn't capable of doing that with Toroko, why was he able to with Sue? I was under the impression the rage the Red Flower induced was constant and everlasting, something that turned them into no-sleep, murder-everything machines, which was why Quote couldn't knock Toroko out and then imprison her while they thought of a way to change her back.

    I mean, I really didn't want to kill Toroko...One of the hardest moments in the game as far as sentiment goes. Having Sue survive almost felt unfair.
     
  2. Feb 17, 2012
    jed37
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    I'm not sure how it changes things, but Sue wasn't an enraged mimiga...

    She was just transformed by the doctor's magic. Similar effect, sure, and the crystal was made from the red flowers... But whatever Sue was turned into wasn't just an enraged mimiga. She was half human or something.

    EDIT: So, based on that, she was no less likely to survive that fight than say, Misery.
     
  3. Feb 17, 2012
    cultr1
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    Well, FlamingFurry, I have few theories on why this is.
    First, the red crystal. It's already made clear that it functions differently on a fundamental level from the red flowers themselves, it can even work on humans.
    Her possession also takes a different form than other rabid Mimiga. One could say that this is because of the Red Crystal, but given the infinite supply of stereotypical rabid Mimiga on the Balcony, I'd be inclined to believe it is because Sue is a human turned rabid because it seems to work fine on other Mimiga.
     
  4. Feb 17, 2012
    jed37
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    Again... Sue's transformation wouldn't be like those on the balcony.

    It wasn't done systematically to create the Doctor's army, like the other mimigas. It was part of the Doctor/Core/Crystal's last-ditch effort to survive. She doesn't even LOOK like an enraged mimiga.
     
  5. Feb 17, 2012
    cultr1
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    Well, what if I assert it is the same process as before? Why wouldn't the process be the same as on the Balcony? Who's to say the crystal had a special second mode for different transformations? I believe it's because she's a human, and you believe it was a different process.
    I mean, your theory is no more valid than mine, and mine no more than yours D:
    I'm fine with two discrete theories, I approve of opposing opinions, but putting on a fake condescending tone doesn't make you any more right than I.
     
  6. Feb 17, 2012
    andwhyisit
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    The crown can control red flowers and/or the red crystal because they are likely both sourced from the same location. Both would likely be extensions of Ballos' magic. With the Core out of commission there would have been nothing to contain Ballos' magic. Thus Ballos diverted his magic towards crashing the island into the ground, and likely away from the red flowers and possibly the crown. All rabid Mimigas, Sue and Misery would have returned to normal. The doctor however, without the power of the red crystal to sustain him in his then bodiless state, would have died.
     
  7. Feb 17, 2012
    JamesRaynor
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    Probably because she was originally human and therefore not affected by it in quite the same way. She also was possessed by the red crystal itself instead of consuming a flower.
     
  8. Feb 17, 2012
    X-Calibar
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    Sue's case is all really pretty complicated... First off, Sue is a human that is magically transformed into a Mimiga by Misery's magic. This curse seems to stay with Sue no matter what. (perhaps Misery's death or if she broke the curse it would go away?)

    I would think Misery's death might end the curse, if it's like Ballos' Demon Crown effect? It will live on as long as Ballos is alive.

    So what would happen if she ate a red flower? ....... Kazuma wonders this.... We have no way of knowing...

    The Red Crystal apparently powers up humans, like how the Doctor was able to feel Super or something... [maybe his attacks were more impressive/more health/intelligence etc] But damaged Doctor lead to the Crystal going berserk, turning him into the Muscle Doctor...

    So...? Does that mean your mental state is a factor in how the Red affects you? Or is it your physical state? A combination of both??? In any case.... Sue is transformed into a bunny girl, leading me to believe that look is a combination of both Misery's Mimiga transformation and the Muscle Doctor's form. A frenzied bunny girl... Rawr....

    Why does she survive? Well.... I'm going to go with Game Logic ? You are not allowed to kill her, therefore she cannot die.
    Probably due to the fact Quote doesn't TRY to kill her? Just knock her out..?

    Or maybe... one of the points about the Red Crystal is the amount of extra health/regeneration you get, like I mentioned about the Doctor's health becoming stronger... So, Sue could take a beating and end up okay.

    Also on the Core being destroyed; Kazuma says the only way to break the Frenzied transformation / ( Red Crystal's power ), would be breaking the Core.

    That makes the Doctor's interest in the Core, that much more clear as well... His great achievement being the Red Crystal, which probably works thanks to the Core's existence...

    Why did Toroko die from Quote? Hmmm... Maybe it has something to do with how disfigured the transformation made Toroko? Maybe she ingested a bunch of Flowers instead of just one... Unknown... All I know is Frenzied Toroko is HUGE! For such a small girl... Sue on the other hand isn't that gigantic, nor was the muscle doctor. We know the Doctor survived a single assault from Quote, perhaps Sue could too. A second attack however...


    So my theory : Sue survived because the Crystal gave her more health/stronger durability. Also game logic, Quote wasn't trying to kill her. Plus with the Core's defeat, perhaps she was restored to her former state? [damage as well?]
     
  9. Feb 18, 2012
    Flamefury
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    But Quote wouldn't have been trying to kill Toroko either, unless/until he understood there was no way of saving her.

    I suppose Sue's case is pretty different from a standard Mimiga, given she's originally human and only Mimiga by magic.

    Still, you do have Muscle Doctor, an enraged human, who disintegrated when he suffered too much damage. Enraged Sue only got knocked out after taking too many hits.

    The only explanation I think could be valid is that Quote took down the Core without harming either Sue or Misery to the point where their possession would utterly destroy them, as it had with Muscle Doctor. And that the only reason they get knocked out is so that the final battle doesn't stay ridiculously hard from a gameplay perspective.
     
  10. Feb 18, 2012
    jed37
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    This. It's possible to win the fight without even hitting Sue or Misery, so it would be unfair to make them die.

    It's like Schroedinger's Booster.

    ... Kinda.
     
  11. Feb 19, 2012
    andwhyisit
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    Schrödinger's Monster-X?
    Schrödinger's Ame?
     
  12. Feb 19, 2012
    DoubleThink
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    Now now, there's no need to be so catty
     
  13. Feb 20, 2012
    Hina
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    Winning without hitting Sue or Misery is very hard.
    I always shot Misery first because she summons bats/critters.
    Sue isn't dangerous.

    And what 'Booster' did you mean?
     
  14. Feb 21, 2012
    andwhyisit
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    Misery usually doesn't summon anything unless you attack her or defeat Sue.
     
  15. Feb 21, 2012
    jed37
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    I meant how Professor Booster is alive unless you observe him. This seems silly, but it makes sense from a quantum physics perspective.

    Offtopic: I think the battle's easier with Misery alive 'cause the critters she summons drop hearts!
     
  16. Feb 22, 2012
    cultr1
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    But once misery is down you stop taking damage because the other bosses are worthless and couldn't hit the side of a barn, much less a pint-sized robot.
     
  17. Feb 22, 2012
    andwhyisit
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    The problem is that by attacking Misery first you essentially have to deal with Sue and Misery at the same time (attack Misery, avoid Sue) until Misery bites the dust, whereas attacking Sue first means that Misery will normally not attack you until you defeat Sue, and without Sue there to interfere you can focus all your attention on Misery. Just pull out your lvl.3 Blade and let fly.
     
  18. Feb 22, 2012
    Crushing Victory
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    You mean The Lvl. 2 Blade, right?
     
  19. Feb 23, 2012
    Shane
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    What about the Spur? I usually take out both Sue and Misery before focusing on the core (that way it's harder to take damage) and I usually Max-charge the spur before firing the Undead Core, since the Blade levels down in one hit (unless the game was modded to make it level down in more than one hit by changing the MAX XP value thing). So, I usually stand at the highest platform, where the energy blasts can hit me (if he gets half HP or something like that).

    As for how Sue survives (which is on topic), she was turned into a Mimiga by Misery, who was under the control of the wearer of the Demon Crown (Fuyuhiko Date, aka the Doctor). Maybe his good side (if he was 99% evil, 1% good) wanted her to live along with Misery, so when the Core is taken down, he uses the last of his power to restore them both back to normal. That's my theory.
     
  20. Feb 23, 2012
    andwhyisit
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    No, I meant lvl.3. Splash damage is a good way to deal with fish missiles no?

    But frenzied misery isn't exactly hard to take down when by herself anyway, so it's really down to personal preference.

    Anyhow I should probably stop there since this isn't really on topic.