Full-timeline theory I have worked on for a while.

Nov 5, 2013 at 9:05 PM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
I made an account for the sole purpose of posting this, although i plan on being active here. In any case, I'll leap right into it. Let’s start with the basic explanations of the theory first. I would love it if you all could point out any plot holes it has, for I am sure it is absolutely riddled with them.

JUST A NOTE: This is obviously going to have spoilers to both the full story version of this theory I am currently working on as well as the game.

First of all, we know very, very little about the jealous king, other than that he drove Ballos insane. Due to this, I have the most...out there, if you will, part of my theory at the beginning. We have to assume that this king was a mage as well, and that he found a way to make himself immortal. I will explain why this matters later, although you may be able to guess it as I explain further. (One side note: I am assuming these events, those of Ballos going insane, took place thousands of years before the game.)

Second. The castle on the island needs explaining. This is a minor one, but is a turning point that I will explain soon enough. The castle was originally inhabited by humans, possibly survivors of Ballos' rage, possible natives, possibly ones that came long after it was discovered. In any case, the humans constructed this in my theory. The statue at the edge is humanoid in appearance and somewhat supports this theory.

Third. This is less of a theory and more of an observation. All three of the holders of the Crown before Date were....strange looking. Halda seemed to have the appearance akin to a half-dragon or half-lizard. In my rendition, I am using the former. Annachponae obviously looks like an alligator or crocodile. Miakid, while more human-like, seems to be larger than the average human, almost grotesquely so. The last hint as to what I am planning before I leap into it is, note these features and note what Date is called.

With that out of the way, I am going to begin.


Bluntly, I am proposing that the Doctor is the jealous king that drove Ballos over the edge. I have considered this for a while, and there are things that can make sense about this. None of the other Holders have as much infamy, have done as much damage, as Miakid and the Doctor. I think this might be due to the fact that their goals were different from Miakid and Date’s.

First, we start with Halda. Halda was the subject of a genetic mutation with a dragon, the DNA of one injected at his birth. He lived with his parents, under close observation by the facility. They were confined to a specific location, having no contact with any other humans. At one point, his parents both contracted an illness, and, to prevent Halda from being infected, the researchers killed them. Halda was told they died in a freak accident.

Halda was kept in a cage and experimented on past this, to the point of nearly losing his mind. The major experiment, one that had little to do with his DNA, was removing all color from his life. The scales covering his body were quite fitting for this, being as black as night. Eventually, he passes his fifteenth birthday, which was the general cutoff line. Every mutation before him died before their fifteenth year of life. Halda showed no signs of the usual deterioration, and was chosen to be the first to attempt to fulfill his “creator’s” goals. The Doctor, formerly the king of the nation, was the head of this small facility. This is where he gained his title, and also provides some explanation as to how he managed to turn Itoh and Sue into Mimiga.

In any case, he trains Halda to be the perfect servant. As Halda reaches twenty five years of age, the Doctor decides he has matured enough to attempt to find Ballos. The Doctor’s motivation for attacking the surface world is that, in his mind, those humans are the descendants of the ones that favored Ballos. In a twist of irony, he wanted to use Ballos himself to get revenge. His first death warped his mind, leaving a few screws loose, if you will. Moving on to when Halda arrives upon the Island. Upon the surface, the castle previously mentioned is there. The Doctor assumes these humans are descendants of those who survived the fall of the kingdom. Halda is ordered to obliterate the castle and leave nobody alive.

Previously, Halda had followed the Doctor’s instructions like a dog, obeying without question. This genocide created a worm of doubt within his mind, however. Murder without need seemed senseless to him. However, the Doctor was the one who, in his mind, gave him life. Thus, he continues to search for Ballos. After some time, he discovers the Demon Crown. Sensing great power, he puts the Crown on, wondering if it could lead him to his goal. What he did not anticipate is the flood of knowledge the Crown gives him. It acts like a chronicle, showing him what truly happened to Ballos and the Doctor.

Halda, at this point, reverses his goal. It is still to find Ballos, but to kill him instead of letting the Doctor unleash him. Still acting as though under the Doctors orders, Halda continues to search for Ballos. Eventually, he stumbles upon an entrance to the Blood Stained Sanctuary. He seals it off, constructing a building as a station for future researchers on top of it to disguise the seal. After short preparations, he bypasses the seal and enters the Sanctuary.

Realistically, he was unprepared. Overwhelmed by the traps, as well as the monsters that Ballos’ magic influenced, he perished in the Sanctuary. His soul was trapped in the maelstrom of the vile magic, bound to be Ballos’ servant. His form is changed to be fitting of his role, bound to be a loyal dog to Ballos. Yes, the dog that tells you of Ballos and his past. The dog never, to my knowledge, says he was a pet of Ballos, simply that Ballos was his master.

Annachponae’s saga is a short one. Unlike Halda, he never goes turncoat, loyal to the end. His main acheviment, however, was that he was the one who found the Mimiga below the earth, as well as found the red flower and its effects. As he attempted to force-feed a Mimiga this, a young man, one of the last humans on the island, killed him. This man? His name is Tetsuzou Kamadani. Most know him as the hermit gunsmith who lives above the Mimiga village. And thus ends Annachponae
.
Miakid was originally a researcher, one under the Doctor. He volunteered for research on a fully-grown adult. This experiment was to genetically modify a man’s strength. It mostly worked, leaving him with the large body that can be seen in his statue. His reasoning for volunteering was that he might be the next to go to the island. Miakid was an anomaly in this sense; he was never on the Doctor’s side. He heard of the red flowers and what the Doctor planned, and decided to put a stop to it. This genetic enhancement would, if successful, increase his chances of being sent. It, luckily for him, turns out that he was the next sent. Upon arriving, he ferverently searched for the Crown, hoping it would give him enough strength to kill the Doctor.

Soon after finding it, however, the killer robots arrive. All were created by a government that discovered the Doctor’s plan. The government was not doing this for the good of the people they ruled. No, they simply did not want the Doctor overthrowing them. They attempted to kill the Mimiga before the Doctor had a chance to use them. All of them had this goal. All except Quote and Curly. These two were not like the rest. Unlike the other robots, these two had a consciousness, free thought. I am proposing they were human souls in mechanical bodies. This would explain their human-like emotions and ability to adapt. Granted, AI now can do things similar, and they very well could be hyper-intelligent AI’s. Sticking with my original theory, however, I assume they were originally human.

Upon reaching Miakid, they instantly engage in battle. Due to the Crown’s power, Miakid is able to tell these two are not like the others and attempts to reason with them. He has to subdue them first before they listen, but does not kill them. After explaining, the two decide to join him. Curly’s memory stopped just before this point, up to where they were defeated. The reason they switched sides so easily is due to the fact that, unlike the programmed robots, they were attempting to destroy the Crown because they thought it was right. Miakid explained, while they were unable to move, that even if they killed him, it would still live on. He goes on to explain the other robots’ reason for being there, and what the Doctor was planning.

After a short time, Miakid went to the Mimiga. Most fled into the caverns, but roughly twenty to thirty of them stayed behind to give the rest time to escape from the “evil” Holder. Quickly, before they attack, Miakid explains himself. He tells them what the Doctor is planning. He offers to either let them come and defend, or to sacrifice themselves to save the rest and go on the offensive. The bodies of their fallen comrades, killed by the robots, along with the living rabid Mimiga, trapped behind rocks and clawing to get out, cause them to agree to attack. The fact that the rest fled is the reason that most think Miakid released them onto the surface to kill humans with no cause.

Miakid takes the ones who agreed, along with the already rabid Mimiga, to the helicopter he arrived on. Flying to the surface, he releases them at the Doctor’s laboratory, all forty of them. He returned to the Island, preparing to retrieve Quote and Curly. His new goal was to kill Ballos, for the Crown gave him the knowledge as well, and destroy the Crown. However, the Doctor had figured out Miakid’s treachery, escaping before the Mimiga killed everyone in the research facility. Upon sensing the Doctor’s malevolent intent, he blindsides Quote and Curly, knowing that they are far more fragile than he, and prepares to take on the Doctor himself. He is killed, and the crown destroyed with him. However, the Doctor is weakened greatly after this fight, and the Mimiga, although weak, are far greater in number. He returns to the surface to recover and plan what to do next.

(A note here. The Crown, in this theory, is killed along with the holder. This explains why he had to come back to get it and couldn’t simply take it. When the Doctor is killed, the Crown also dissolves along with him. Whether that is due to something he did or the idea I just proposed here, I know not.)

After this, the events take place in the game like normal. A quick note, however, about the Doctor. He was killed once and survived. I think that, beyond creating the Crystal, he fused himself with the Crown to truly grant himself immortality. Thus, he did not die after the Core’s destruction. Even if you do not buy into the rest of this theory, I feel this part is basically confirmed in the game. He died once and still was alive, due to the Crown. There is no reason that killing him a second time would end him. However, what he assumes makes him both immortal and immensely powerful ends up being his downfall, as he is destroyed along with the Crown and Ballos.

And with that, my theory is complete. I apologize if Miakid’s section seems hastily written, I found it hard to transfer this part from my mind to type.
Feel free to point out any plotholes you see, and I will either explain my reasoning or modify that part. I’m posting this here before fully writing the novel form to iron out any potential fallacies. (This is assuming it doesn’t blow a hole the size of Australia into my theory, trashing the whole thing.)


About the statue carver. If he worked for Date, and my theories are correct, why would he carve statues of the traitor Miakid? My hypothesis is that he was actually a spirit in servitude to Ballos, forced to carve statues of each holder of the Crown.



I realize I should say this after another person's response. While I state everything in this like it is cold hard fact, this is just my way of presenting a theory. It loses credibility if you say "i think" before everything. I stated it like it was fact because, in the theory, it is.
 
Nov 5, 2013 at 10:28 PM
Beakface
"All your forum are belong to us!"
Join Date: Feb 2, 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 620
Age: 29
Finally, a theory timeline thread I can respond to.

*reads* Wait...the Doctor existed in Halda's time? I would have thought the first and final crown bearers would have quite some distance of time between them.
 
Nov 5, 2013 at 10:42 PM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6211
Age: 38
Makaires said:
Miakid, while more human-like, seems to be larger than the average human, almost grotesquely so.
Miakid was buff for a reason, he was the Government's go-to guy.

Makaires said:
Halda was the subject of a genetic mutation with a dragon, the DNA of one injected at his birth.
Or could actually be a member of an actual race on Cave Story's world. You never see the surface world so you never know.

Makaires said:
Bluntly, I am proposing that the Doctor is the jealous king that drove Ballos over the edge. I have considered this for a while, and there are things that can make sense about this.
Why would he adopt the wild magic of a man who wanted him dead? That makes no sense.

Makaires said:
None of the other Holders have as much infamy, have done as much damage, as Miakid and the Doctor. I think this might be due to the fact that their goals were different from Miakid and Date’s.
Date was just a man trying to copy Miakid's reign.

Essentially Miakid was tasked with retrieving the crown for the world governments. Armed with robot soldiers he stormed the island leaving many dead Humans and Mimigas in his wake until the Mimigas fought back with the red flowers. The Cthulthu are probably the Human survivors. The Humans likely moved to the island between the second and third reigns, which would explain the technology on the island. Upon finding the crown Miakid took it for himself and discovered that he could control the enraged Mimigas and used them to attack the world governments. I suspect that no bearer before him knew that they could do this.

Makaires said:
This is where he gained his title, and also provides some explanation as to how he managed to turn Itoh and Sue into Mimigas.
Misery did that, not Date.
 
Nov 5, 2013 at 11:40 PM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
andwhyisit said:
Miakid was buff for a reason, he was the Government's go-to guy. I don't remember this. Is this your theory?

Or could actually be a member of an actual race on Cave Story's world. You never see the surface world so you never know. Well of course I don't know, hence the "theory" in the title.

Why would he adopt the wild magic of a man who wanted him dead? That makes no sense. I proposed he was a mage before the Ballos incident, so he didn't "adopt the magic" of him.

Date was just a man trying to copy Miakid's reign. Again, this is just your theory.

Essentially Miakid was tasked with retrieving the crown for the world governments. Armed with robot soldiers he stormed the island leaving many dead Humans and Mimigas in his wake until the Mimigas fought back with the red flowers. The Cthulthu are probably the Human survivors. The Humans likely moved to the island between the second and third reigns, which would explain the technology on the island. Upon finding the crown Miakid took it for himself and discovered that he could control the enraged Mimigas and used them to attack the world governments. I suspect that no bearer before him knew that they could do this. We only know what characters know, what they have heard. Curly did not regain her memory fully. I know what most people think Miakid was like, I have my own theory, which I will post soon enough.

Misery did that, not Date. I looked for quite a while, couldn't find where it said exactly who. I'm not doubting you, but could you find the part where the game states this?
Overall, most of your counterpoints were simply saying you have a different theory. While this is completely fine, I would rather you not discount mine as false because of another theory.



EDIT: I think the reason you replied like this was the way I stated my theory. I stated it like it was fact, but it was just my way of explaining. Every time I say "<person> was/did <thing>" that isn't confirmed, assume it says "in my theory, <person> was/did <thing>," if that clears anything up.



(I accidentally did this wrong, so I cannot edit in the other quote without double posting. I'm used to other forums, my apologies)

Random-storykeeper, on 05 Nov 2013 - 5:28 PM, said:
Finally, a theory timeline thread I can respond to.

*reads* Wait...the Doctor existed in Halda's time? I would have thought the first and final crown bearers would have quite some distance of time between them.



I'm proposing that the Doctor was actually the King who drove Ballos to insanity, and is the mastermind, if you will, behind the Holders of the Crown. The one who manipulated them. After Miakid, who I am typing up currently, he decided to do it himself. So yes, their reigns did have a lot of time. I'm thinking hundreds if not thousands of years. Certainly at least a thousand years after Ballos' rampage. Between Halda and Date's reigns, I'm not sure yet.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 1:15 AM
Senior Member
"This is the greatest handgun ever made! You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"
Join Date: Nov 23, 2012
Location: HELL.
Posts: 106
I just assumed he was just working with the researchers, and didnt really plan on finding it, but found the crown on accident or some shit and went crazy
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 1:53 AM
Been here way too long...
Discord Group Admin
Org Discord Moderator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Oct 18, 2011
Location:
Posts: 2335
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
"It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected."

Your theory is extremely elaborate, but based almost exclusively on conjecture. Compare this to andwhy's post, with at most one assumption having been made.

I'm going to ask you to take a look at Sue's letter. The letter states that the Doctor, believe it or not, was the medical doctor in the group. Assuming that he got his name from that is one assumption. Your theory needs several for that point alone. Even more importantly, however, is the fact that the Doctor went through some trouble to be accepted into the group. If he were this king as you said, would he not have easier methods of getting to the island than begging a research group?
Once again, I will point out that you have no evidence for your theory. Due to this, nobody will take it seriously. Next time you make a theory, keep this point and Occam's razor in mind.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 2:09 AM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
Dunc2403 said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
"It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected."

Your theory is extremely elaborate, but based almost exclusively on conjecture. Compare this to andwhy's post, with at most one assumption having been made.

I'm going to ask you to take a look at Sue's letter. The letter states that the Doctor, believe it or not, was the medical doctor in the group. Assuming that he got his name from that is one assumption. Your theory needs several for that point alone. Even more importantly, however, is the fact that the Doctor went through some trouble to be accepted into the group. If he were this king as you said, would he not have easier methods of getting to the island than begging a research group?
Once again, I will point out that you have no evidence for your theory. Due to this, nobody will take it seriously. Next time you make a theory, keep this point and Occam's razor in mind.
He was the king of the kingdom that was destroyed. Thought to be dead, who would even believe he was the king? Even still, what would it matter? A king without a kingdom is a common man. I also know he was the medical doctor. If he was skilled in biomutations, he would have to know how the body works, no? Easy enough to pose as a medical doctor.

In the points he made, I am counting three assumptions, two if I was misinformed about the Doctor having turned Sue and Itoh into Mimiga. While normally, yes, this would have an abnormal amount of assumptions, this is only because of the detail I went in to in it. There is also the fact that near-nothing is known about this world. We know what characters know, what they themselves assume. Even hypothesis's that have no info that was not given in game have assumptions.

I am not so naive as to think I have few assumptions, but this is partially due to the detail I put in to it.


EDIT: Something else that came to me. When making a theory about Halda and Annachponae, as well as anything past what you were told in the Sacred Grounds, it is impossible to NOT make assumptions. You know their name and appearance only, in the case of the Holders, and not even that with the King.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 2:18 AM
Professional Whatever
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 13, 2011
Location: Lasagna
Posts: 4481
Makaires said:
A king without a kingdom is a common man.
However, a king with magical abilities is not. You proposed he could use magic before the calamity, yes? Then why would he require the demon crown's power? Furthermore, why did he have to struggle with access to the research group? You also said at one point that he didn't even use Ballos' power, if I understood correctly. This is a huge assumption. These parts of your theory make it just that - a theory, and an unstable one at that. You could say it can be cut like a razor through butter.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 2:46 AM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
MagicDoors said:
However, a king with magical abilities is not. Would you be very willing to accept someone You proposed he could use magic before the calamity, yes? Then why would he require the demon crown's power? I said he could use magic, yes. Making oneself immortal, if magic is involved, is not as far-fetched and difficult as it might seem. Just make your cells repair themselves indefinitely. This drain on his energy could constitute his need for another power source. How he survived the maelstrom of energy, however, is a bit harder to answer. I would assume a kind of barrier. Refer to my text after this quote for a further explanation. Another possibility is that, being a mage himself, he was able to divert enough of the magic to not be totally obliterated. Furthermore, why did he have to struggle with access to the research group? If he was this king, who would believe him? He was supposed to have died. Furthermore, who would want something to do with him? He caused the death of countless people, indirectly. I assume he might want to keep a low profile. You also said at one point that he didn't even use Ballos' power, if I understood correctly. How could he have used Ballos' power? This is a huge assumption. And how is this an assumption? These parts of your theory make it just that - a theory, and an unstable one at that. You could say it can be cut like a razor through butter.
An explanation of magic. The way I view magic is basically manipulating matter and energy. The users might know they are manipulating them, or they might also think it is magic. Misery creating those circular shields, for example. She could be converting the molecules around her into incredibly hard carbon, creating strong shields. Matter and energy can be turned into one another. The bats could be just this. I am not saying she is consciously thinking "Now, gather the carbon here and form a circular shape." Now, this is just a creative way of explaining magic that I have come up with, and bares no relevance to my theory. However, this could explain how he creates a barrier.

Shadowcat, I am fairly sure it is stated that he actually wormed his way into their party because he knew of and wanted the crown. Not 100% on this, but fairly close. This was part of the fun of coming up with this, researching things and making sure I didn't contradict what was said in the game. This is mainly what I was looking for, anything I said that directly conflicted with something that was confirmed. I am not complaining or irked about any of these arguments against it. It makes me think and revise and change, making it more solid.


...granted, I could do without the level of hostility I think I sense from some people replying, but no matter >.>
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 2:58 AM
Professional Whatever
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jan 13, 2011
Location: Lasagna
Posts: 4481
You know what? Fuck this. I was going to post something intellectual about the situation but I am just so tired of new members coming in and accusing us of being hostile, while they bring their overbearing hostility into the discussion. Fuck you. I'm sick of trying to help with discussion, or trying to reason with people.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 3:35 AM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
MagicDoors said:
You know what? Fuck this. I was going to post something intellectual about the situation but I am just so tired of new members coming in and accusing us of being hostile, while they bring their overbearing hostility into the discussion. Fuck you. I'm sick of trying to help with discussion, or trying to reason with people.
I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. I said, and i quote, "I think I sense." It would seem I was wrong, and I apologize. I am used to places I have been before with people having a compulsion to shoot someone down, whether they agree or not. Hostility wasn't even the right word. Sarcasm would be more along the lines of what I meant. again, I apologize for misreading the way you said that.

Pardon any grammatical errors, i hate touch screen keyboards. No access to my computer right now.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 3:38 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6211
Age: 38
Makaires said:
I don't remember this. Is this your theory?
The Cthulthu and island technology parts are my theory, but the rest is mentioned in Jenka's dog returning dialogue and Curly's return of memory dialogue if I recall. I'll put them up later if I get the chance.

Makaires said:
I proposed he was a mage before the Ballos incident, so he didn't "adopt the magic" of him.
Not back then but rather when he became a crown bearer. Ballos is the source of the crown's magic.

Makaires said:
I looked for quite a while, couldn't find where it said exactly who. I'm not doubting you, but could you find the part where the game states this?
Itoh mentions this on his first meeting with Quote.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 3:44 AM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
andwhyisit said:
The governments of the surface sent him to retrieve the crown for them. This is mentioned in-game.
Ah, I must have missed that, thank you. This actually helps with cleaning up his section.

Not back then but rather when he became a crown bearer. Ballos is the source of the crown's magic.
Oh, this is what you meant. I see what you mean now. It was extra power, extra strength to use to attack. I also feel like the Doctor had a few screws loose at this point. I doubt, even discarding my theory, that he was thinking clearly.

Itoh mentions this on his first meeting with Quote.
Ah. I'm not sure where I got the idea that the Doctor did this. I think a friend said this and I just stuck with it.
(On a totally irrelevant side note, I love your avatar.)
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 6:29 AM
Been here way too long...
Discord Group Admin
Org Discord Moderator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Oct 18, 2011
Location:
Posts: 2335
Makaires said:
He was the king of the kingdom that was destroyed.
You don't have the slightest bit of evidence to support this. This statement can be immediately ignored.
Thought to be dead, who would even believe he was the king? Even still, what would it matter? A king without a kingdom is a common man.
You're assuming he's the king without the slightest bit of evidence. These statements can also be ignored.
I also know he was the medical doctor. If he was skilled in biomutations, he would have to know how the body works, no? Easy enough to pose as a medical doctor.
There is no evidence in support of this skill in mutations. As such, the point you're trying to make here is meaningless, and can be ignored.
In the points he made, I am counting three assumptions, two if I was misinformed about the Doctor having turned Sue and Itoh into Mimiga.
Oh my, I was one off. How absolutely awful.
While normally, yes, this would have an abnormal amount of assumptions, this is only because of the detail I went in to in it.
My entire point was that this is the reason your theory simply isn't good.
There is also the fact that near-nothing is known about this world. We know what characters know, what they themselves assume. Even hypothesis's that have no info that was not given in game have assumptions.
It's not like those theories have no assumptions by definition or anything.

I am not so naive as to think I have few assumptions, but this is partially due to the detail I put in to it.
The problem lies in the fact that not a single part of your theory lacks assumption.


EDIT: Something else that came to me. When making a theory about Halda and Annachponae, as well as anything past what you were told in the Sacred Grounds, it is impossible to NOT make assumptions. You know their name and appearance only, in the case of the Holders, and not even that with the King.
Now, this is going to sound crazy, but there is a very good reason that no good theories exist on them. You've actually pointed out the reason! Good work, have a gold star. In fact, last year, one of the winners for "best" theory (meaning worst) was a discussion on that very topic!

*ahem*

If I weren't burdened with school and unable to post much before midnight, I'd give your entire theory the same treatment I gave this post I quoted. My most common statement (that being that a certain statement or set of statements can be ignored due to a lack of any supporting evidence) applies to nearly all of your theory. I hope I've made my point more clear.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 6:36 AM
Administrator
Forum Administrator
"Life begins and ends with Nu."
Join Date: Jul 15, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6211
Age: 38
Makaires said:
EDIT: Something else that came to me. When making a theory about Halda and Annachponae, as well as anything past what you were told in the Sacred Grounds, it is impossible to NOT make assumptions. You know their name and appearance only, in the case of the Holders, and not even that with the King.
Quite frankly more is collectively known about the King than the first two bearers.

Makaires said:
(On a totally irrelevant side note, I love your avatar.)
(Thanks, it's Raikoo from Dragon Drive.)
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 9:32 AM
Beakface
"All your forum are belong to us!"
Join Date: Feb 2, 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 620
Age: 29
It is a very elaborate theory to do with characters that are barely spoken about directly in the game. I have to commend you for the thought and effort you put into this - despite overlooking a few details here and there. A rather interesting interpretation, and certainly not one I had in mind.

Not only are there a number of assumptions to be had, but rather, people's interpretations of the text in Cave Story differ, sometimes to a great extent.

One thing I would say is that while there are a lot of assumptions necessary for the fine details, they do have to agree with the overall plot/backstory given to us in the game in order for this to be a more believable theory.

I myself have not fully examined the plot of Cave Story in detail but if I recall, the Doctor originally came to the island to serve the medical needs. Yes, he did know about the Crown, and the game doesn't explicitly state how he came to know about the Crown. I can't seem to find your explanation for how the Doctor, said to be the king mentioned in the Sacred Grounds, made his way back to the surface so he could insistently push his way back into a group of people who were making their way back to the island anyhow?

The Doctor's deaths...you say he died "twice"; does this account for the time when the king was engulfed in a fiery rage due to Ballos' power? I thought the two deaths of the Doctor would be one time during his "muscle" form and the other with the Undead Core. Then again, "death" could have been used arbitrarily here; if the Doctor is already dead, and didn't come to life again, how can he die when he is already dead? Of course, this may have been a misunderstanding on my part, so feel free to sort that out.

Despite all the assumptions and details that don't quite click together just yet, I have to admit I like the hermit gunsmith theory and can probably agree with that on some terms.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
Random-storykeeper said:
It is a very elaborate theory to do with characters that are barely spoken about directly in the game. I have to commend you for the thought and effort you put into this - despite overlooking a few details here and there. A rather interesting interpretation, and certainly not one I had in mind.

Not only are there a number of assumptions to be had, but rather, people's interpretations of the text in Cave Story differ, sometimes to a great extent.

One thing I would say is that while there are a lot of assumptions necessary for the fine details, they do have to agree with the overall plot/backstory given to us in the game in order for this to be a more believable theory.

This is mainly why I posted here. Some people seem to want me to provide cold, hard evidance of some things I said. I'm simply attempting to make sure that it doesn't conflict with the "cold, hard fact" we already know from the game.


I myself have not fully examined the plot of Cave Story in detail but if I recall, the Doctor originally came to the island to serve the medical needs. Yes, he did know about the Crown, and the game doesn't explicitly state how he came to know about the Crown. I can't seem to find your explanation for how the Doctor, said to be the king mentioned in the Sacred Grounds, made his way back to the surface so he could insistently push his way back into a group of people who were making their way back to the island anyhow?

Back to the island? Are you of the opinion that the kingdom that was destroyed is the one on the Island? If this is true and I'm not misunderstanding, I have heard this before and can fully believe it. I'm just assuming they were two different places in this theory. In other words, the king was never on the island.


The Doctor's deaths...you say he died "twice"; does this account for the time when the king was engulfed in a fiery rage due to Ballos' power? I thought the two deaths of the Doctor would be one time during his "muscle" form and the other with the Undead Core. Then again, "death" could have been used arbitrarily here; if the Doctor is already dead, and didn't come to life again, how can he die when he is already dead? Of course, this may have been a misunderstanding on my part, so feel free to sort that out.

This was a miswording on my part. It did't account for the first time, due to Ballos. I meant twice with the Crown, my apologies.


Despite all the assumptions and details that don't quite click together just yet, I have to admit I like the hermit gunsmith theory and can probably agree with that on some terms.

Thanl's for the positive feedback, on at least one part!

andwhyisit said:
Quite frankly more is collectively known about the King than the first two bearers.(Thanks, it's Raikoo from Dragon Drive.)
I guess you're right. Although, it IS still barely anything. (I'll have to check check that out.)



And MagicDoors, I didn't even really mean you when I said hostile.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 5:19 PM
Beakface
"All your forum are belong to us!"
Join Date: Feb 2, 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 620
Age: 29
Integrating quotes into my quote. That makes it kind of hard to find your annotations. Anyways, that was a misunderstanding on my part about the king on the island. I did realize Ballos was banished to the floating island, but that completely left my mind for some reason. It was quite a minute detail mentioned, that's for sure.
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 5:41 PM
Junior Member
"Fresh from the Bakery"
Join Date: Nov 5, 2013
Location: In the mystical cave of pondering, attempting to f
Posts: 15
Random-storykeeper said:
Integrating quotes into my quote. That makes it kind of hard to find your annotations. Anyways, that was a misunderstanding on my part about the king on the island. I did realize Ballos was banished to the floating island, but that completely left my mind for some reason. It was quite a minute detail mentioned, that's for sure.
Sorry about that, my iPad doesn't show the bold option, and I'm not used to using the b /b things.

'bout it slipping your mind, I've done that plenty of times in this theory alone, so don't sweat it ^_^'
 
Nov 6, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Senior Member
"This is the greatest handgun ever made! You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky?"
Join Date: Nov 23, 2012
Location: HELL.
Posts: 106
Makaires said:
Shadowcat, I am fairly sure it is stated that he actually wormed his way into their party because he knew of and wanted the crown. Not 100% on this, but fairly close. This was part of the fun of coming up with this, researching things and making sure I didn't contradict what was said in the game. This is mainly what I was looking for, anything I said that directly conflicted with something that was confirmed. I am not complaining or irked about any of these arguments against it. It makes me think and revise and change, making it more solid.
Oh. Well, I'm still not sure if i believe your theory, but its interesting.
 
Top