Mint-y freshness

Thank you for your response.

I must say that some of your arguments surprise me. I thought that C++ was not a strongly hyped language, rather strongly hated (for instance, see the C++ FQA - Frequently Questioned Answers). I don't like C++ myself, I much prefer a statically typed functional or object-functional language, especially languages that follow the traditions of the ML-family. That said, I do appreciate the advantages of C++, and I think those advantages make C++ a prime candidate when choosing a language for a real-time, graphics-intensive game engine. C++ is closer to the metal than languages like Java, and this results in less overhead when using libraries such as OpenGL. The support for manual memory handling can also be very useful when fine-tuning performance, something that is not an option in a purely garbage-collected language. Given that Iji at this point in time is not really a graphics-intensive game, Java is a good choice, and even though it is somewhat verbose, it is often less verbose than C++ and is much easier to program in and get correct. Java can also be run in the browser, though it can be discussed whether Java or html5+javascript are preferrable for that purpose. And then there is emspripten and similar options to consider, of course. It should be noted that it is the plan that ENIGMA at some point will support html5+javascript as a compilation target.

However, the main surprise for me is that you seem to take a language-oriented perspective, so to say. Iji is not a small game, and porting it to a new language is likely to be a large amount of effort as you have said yourself, much larger than the effort of using ENIGMA. And if you use ENIGMA, your work is likely going to not only benefit Iji, but also other games.

 

you aren't from around here forthevin so I would understand if you didn't know, but carrotlord is more than a bit irrational and seems to be more interested in pushing his own agenda and made-up programming language than producing something in an effective way.
I expect he'll launch into some unreadable tirade about men on the moon and how God himself delivered Mint to him carved in 32 tablets of solid gold as the One True Programming language. I doubt arguing will get you far.

 

I was not aware that Carrotlord was the author of Mint. While I find it unlikely that Mint is going to become a mainstream language, and pushing it seems a bit silly (if he indeed is pushing it), creating and developing your own language is an excellent idea as a programmer. Even if the language does not go into the mainstream, the challenge and experience of building a language in itself makes the effort worth it. And if Carrotlord not only want to port Iji, but also challenge himself with porting a game and using his own language to do it, then I can definitely see the idea in not using ENIGMA to do it. So I am going to wish him luck, and thank him for offering his help in testing the ENIGMA port of Iji.

 

further evidence supporting my claim that carrot is in fact a masochist


*everyone on the forums

 

I expect he'll launch into some unreadable tirade about men on the moon and how God himself delivered Mint to him carved in 32 tablets of solid gold as the One True Programming language. I doubt arguing will get you far.

Oh man it's a bit sad that you were that predictable Carrotlord.

And I sure see a lot of talk about how you're going to port this game, but not a lot of porting.

 

GIR, I used to admire you a lot. You made WTF Story. Possibly my favorite mod of all time. Ever.
However, I wrote the Assembler. Doukutsu Assembler? What program did you use to make the recursively defined Worm Boss in x86? Oh wait...

Yeah. I can port a game using Java. Easily. I just choose not to do it at a fast pace because I'm too busy working on my programming language and my artificial intelligence research.
I also have university students from my college helping me. Unlike most people on these forums, they actually do know how to make iPhone games, PC games, Layout Engines, and more.
Most importantly, I'm good enough at programming now that I don't feel the need to get "praise" from Noxid or you. I know I'm good at coding. I don't need to show people I'm good. I just need to make a decent game that they can have fun with. I won't make the same mistakes as some people. I know that mods are never good unless you don't care about ever finishing. Ports are never good unless you take your time. Cave Story took 5 years to make. WTF Story... is taking much longer than 5 years to finish? King's Story is I don't even know. It's probably going to be ported to every OS and calculator platform before a fully working copy is available on one type of OS. I have plenty of time to waste, as all the Cave Story modders on the CSTSF have shown me.

 

Carrot nobody ever said you were a bad programmer, most people still respect you (albeit some do it grudgingly) in that regard. Also this is the first time I've ever seen you say something even remotely bad about Noxid or GIR without it being passive-agressive, so that's a step in... well, a direction. Not quite sure which right now.

 

I'm going to instantly regret getting involved with this, seeing how I don't give a crap, but.

I know I'm good at coding. I don't need to show people I'm good.

Then why do you make mile long posts superfluously flaunting your knowledge? Seems a bit contradictory to me.

 

Mint is clearly the best guys. It will the language used sentient AI that will combat the other sentient AI made in Java++C that's evil and save both humanities. All at the same time while recreating Cave Story's engine from scratch but better in real time.

 

Any language can run the ASUNA Ai. Even TSC. It would be really painful in TSC though.

ASUNA is just 400 lines of code. Same as 400 lines of Python, or 400 lines of Ruby. 400 lines of JavaScript would also do. It's not a special Ai. It's just that nobody bothered to make Apple Siri on a desktop PC before. Believe it or not, making an artificial intelligence is much easier than making a programming language or an indie game.

 

Wow matt, you have phrased yours and carrotlord's points so eloquently. You have made me see the error in mine and also other people's ways and I wish to make amends by devoting myself fully to the deification and unification of all languages, not just programming but written and spoken, into the purity and oneness of Mint.
As well I vow never to program again, because nothing I could possibly create would match the splendor of what I have just watched made be happen. I am humbled, truly.

 

I don't respect Noxid and GIR because both of them have attempted to give me warning points for things that don't really matter. At all. Nobody cares if you post 1 off topic post out of 20. Nobody cares if you're not very respectful.

See this is where you're really wrong. If nobody cared, then you (and countless others) would not have received warnings for doing such things. Also Noxid's recent grammatical/capitilization mishaps are more laziness on his part, rather than a conscious effort.

 

Well, Noxid still shouldn't make weird mistakes if he clearly understands English like a normal person. That's just my opinion. It's really confusing because suddenly it looks like a troll message. Obviously warnings like (C) Copyright Noxid DO NOT STEEL are done on purpose.

Also Noxid, I only believe that you are a reasonable person because you are so sarcastic. If that last post wasn't sarcastic, I wouldn't have believed you at all.

 

Ooooh porting Iji on Linux, sounds cool

When are you going to start?
When do you expect to be finished?
Will people (and you) ever stop going offtopic?
Will you port other games from Nifflas or Remar?

 

But Noxid! You're humbleness and shame are not equal with the desired humility factor yet! Mint was delivered to Carrotlord by God for all of us to share and take comfort in. And lets face it, there are languages not in this world. Aliens have their own languages and programming languages too and you haven't even begun to unite us with them. If you wish to show your humility this is what you must do. Give 10% of your cpu to Mint every week, for it has given 100% of it's reliability and ease of use. Ask not what Mint does and can do your for your next project, but rather ask what you can do Mint. Take heed in its flag tracker and cast aside other idols such as txt files! For the rath of Mint will reign down with its mediocrity and okayness!

You have alot to learn Noxid. Be prepared for the journey.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetBackdraft

This might happen to you.
As a suggestion (this is by no means required), lurking is suggested before posting. You can still private message people or post on their feeds. After about 2 or 3 weeks, go ahead and post.
However, if you do not understand that I am a total jerk, you should be careful about where you post and what you post. ENIGMA is going to be an Enigma to me, as much of a confusion as the Balrog-based boss in Schism. Oh well.

It's not like hiino joined the forums on the 20th of Feb, 2011 or anything.

 

(that was directed towards the new poster, as in the ENIGMA expert and/or enthusiast)
(also, if you're implying that Hiino created an alternate account known as forthevin [based on possible IP address history], that alt should be banned anyway.)

Also, did I actually manage to talk about Mint for a very short time without explicitly mentioning myself as the language inventor?
Wow. I'm actually impressed that I'm not looking in a mirror and falling in love with myself every 3 seconds, unlike some people I know in real life.

His post was a page or 2 back, how did you expect me to derive that you were addressing him? When people don't quote posts and address posts generally, I always assume they are talking about the post before theirs, or the one before that.

 

First, I would first like to note that I have no relation to Hiino, at least as far as I know.

Second, I do indeed believe there was a bit of backdraft, but those things happen.

Third. The last many messages seems to me to contain a fair amount of abuse and personal attacks. While I don't like or respect that, such things happens. As should be commonly known, abuse and personal attacks are not conduvice to a healthy community, and it obscures any academic discussion there may have been. However, what worries me is that some of this abuse and these personal attacks seem to come from members who are moderators, namely Noxid and GIRakaCHEEZER (as far as I can tell from their profiles at least, they are moderators). From my perspective, a moderator should be diligent and careful not to engage in abuse, but be tough, just, caring and careful in whatever actions they take as members and moderators, and they should be diligent to stop abuse where they find it. I do not believe this has been the case in this thread. And I believe this is the main reason that the abuse got to the level it got to.

I believe that it should be clear to everyone that a person is entitled to his or her opinions and actions as long as they do not hurt or burden others, no matter how foolish their opinions or actions might be. Let people take responsibility for their own opinions and actions. Of course, criticizing opinions and actions that are believed to be flawed or foolish is in general a good idea, but it should always be done in a constructive, respectful way, not through abuse or personal attacks. For those actions that hurt or burden others, just and caring action should be taken, and it should be made clear why the action is not acceptable, either by referring to rules set beforehand, or by coming with an explanation.

I do not know if the moderators here agree with some of my points or my perspective, but I do believe that it would be valuable to them, to the other participants in this thread, as well as this community in general, to reconsider and possibly change the way they do some of the things they do.

Sorry for the somewhat long rant. I hope it is not inappropriate, and I apologize if I am exaggerating things and putting my arms up over nothing, but I do feel that there is a real problem, and that there is a duty to address such things whenever encountered.

 

forthevin, you are right, and the conduct in this thread on the whole has been rather uncouth. While I'm not saying the things we've said and done last night were justified, I want to take an opportunity to put some things out in the air because to be honest I don't think anybody's outright said this yet and a lot of negative feelings have been smoldering in the background for a while now.

I used to like Carrotlord. He was a polite, helpful member that made some good tools and didn't cause trouble to anyone. But, he disappeared for a while, and when he came back he was... different. He'd started acting with a weird sort of arrogant hostility, making passive-aggressive jabs at GIR and I specifically rather frequently and even began spreading misinformation and making intentionally counterproductive posts towards new members looking for help with modding or some other such business.
At the same time, he'd been becoming increasingly insufferable in the IRC chats as well, interrupting conversations to prattle about whatever subject he wanted regardless of what was going on and spamming the channel with his bot and generally nonsense postings, eventually to reveal that he was doing it merely to piss people off at which point I had had enough and banned him from the channel.
I used to believe carrotlord was an intelligent, civil person, which is a large part of the reason that I was so frustrated with this sudden switch in behaviour to being a total butt. But, he has consistently proven to me that he shows no remorse for his behaviour and indeed doesn't even believe that he is ever in the wrong. He looks down upon others and refuses to acknowledge other people's opinions, even so far to the point of /literally/ ignoring their arguments outright and instead, as I hinted at in my original response that ignited this little debacle, and making pages-long nonsensical rants that amount to strawman arguments at best and are completely unrelated to what was being said at worst.

After all of this (and this has been going on for months), I have simply lost all respect for him.

But what am I to do? He continues to frequent the forum and I certainly aren't about to leave, so it's like being locked in a room with someone that stresses you out with everything they say or do. He can't be reasoned with because I honestly don't believe he's capable of understanding what is wrong or changing it. And so, my tolerance level has continued to wear thin until it gets to the point that we're at now. I really do try my best to be a good moderator but I am only human, and sometimes I forget myself and succumb to childish verbal degradation and snide remarks.
Some have said that I should just ban him from the forums like I have from the IRC, but the forums operate under a different set of rules and I really don't want to make that call because I know my opinion would be biased because of my feelings against him. And so here we are.

I am sorry that you had to be involved in our small-forum drama, it isn't always like this (although this also isn't really the first time something like this has happened, historically speaking..)

 

Oh god this thread.

Anyways I thought I buried what I'm about to bring up, but...

I only pretended to be very nice to people during the first 1 or 2 years I was on the forums. I hated Fire1052 to the bone. I hated the way GIR treated Ralren. I especially hate the arrogance from both of you.

I never DID anything to ralren, except try to be friends with him. But he got very upset over his perception that mod was more "popular" than his, and I think he hated me for it. At least that's what others told me. But I was always civil and just towards him.

I remember his claim of me bullying him in the IRC, about futanari. One day in the IRC, he was going on about how much he liked it. Given the topic at hand, I decided to share my views on it, and expressed a disinterest/dislike for futa. Apparently this freaked him out as he never came back to the IRC, and then later wrote a post about how, through abusing my moderator powers(which is apparently not liking futa), bullied him to the point where he left the forums.