25 replies to this topic

[Brickman]

So, being home for break and having little to do because I had to send in my computer to a repair place, I decided to show my sisters, 8-year-old twins, the copy of this game I had on my flash drive. I wanted to see how far they could get, and also figured it'd be amusing watching them fail at parts I considered easy. They'd seen me play the thing before a whole bunch, but that was years ago and they'd forgotten nearly the whole thing (though they remembered one or two bosses, including Toroko). I gave them plenty of coaching but didn't really watch that much after about the end of the egg corridor or so, except when they needed help. I didn't expect them to get more than halfway through or so, but they managed to get all the way to last cave, and have gotten to the part with the presses in it, so I figure they'll finish that next time they sit down with the thing. The only part I did for them was Monster X. I then figured that, given that probably this entire forum consists of people who at the very least have beaten it with both endings and most of us have probably done challenge runs before and can no longer consider any but the last few areas hard at all without a low-HP stipulation, it'd be interesting to share my observations and the comments of people who found every part hard.

First off, they pretty much ignored the plot. I was kinda thankful for this once I realized they were probably gonna make it to the end of Sand Zone. But they really, really, actively ignored the plot for much of the game. I spent a good five minutes trying to prod them into figuring out that they should tell King about Toroko being kidnapped, or more specifically first trying to get them to remember what just happened that they ought to tell someone about and then who the guy was who said he was in charge. All for naught, of course, as King doesn't even really tell you to go to the graveyard until you've talked to Jack, and doesn't say where it is at all. They pretty much didn't even react to the scene in the storehouse at all, only being concerned with the fact that they get to fight a boss they remember seeing me beat and that they get a new weapon when finished. Even with all that said, though, they STILL sat up and took notice when Curly died. Speaks volumes about the writing there.

As for the game, they honestly had more trouble with the levels than the bosses I think. They weren't great at either (though one was markedly better than the other, and ended up beating most of the hard bosses first; did I mention they took turns with one save file?), but the enemies gave them a lot of trouble throughout while only a few bosses took more than a few tries. This, of course, has cumulative effects since your favorite weapon constantly getting leveled down just makes it even easier to get hurt more. They also really did not bother with making sure they had most of their health or level three weapons (even for the weapons they used the most) when entering boss fights, and I had to basically force them to stop and level up at a few points when they were having trouble. When questioned, they said the hardest level was probably grasstown, what with the flying critters, the giant critters, the bats, the ghosts, and the spike pits which they fell in over and over. Also, of course, it has two (three if you count the rabbit by the missiles, which they did) bosses, all of which they found tough. Labrynth enemies managed to hit them a lot but really only softened them up for the bosses, egg corridor one and two were both pretty tough, I think they beat outer wall on the first or second try. Sand zone's crocodiles gave them a bunch of trouble until I explained to them how to get to/from Omega without breaking any unnecessary star blocks, I didn't really stick around to watch the lower parts but think they did fine.

Moving on to bosses, you'd probably be interested to know which ones they found hard. It was great fun watching them frantically leap over Balrog 1 and Igor, take two or three shots and run away/leap over again; the former took a few tries due to being new to the game and the fact that they had only the level 1 polar star, but Igor fell the first time I think. Interestingly, Igor was like three quarters dead before he did his breath attack a single time, instead just chasing her around the room trying to punch her. Balrog two frustrated them a lot, and I had to explain to them how Balfrog worked. They simply could not beat that rabbit guarding the missile upgrade in grasstown, even after I repeatedly explained its simple and predictable attack pattern, which caused me no shortage of head scratching; in the end they just skipped him. I then suggested once they found the teleporter to grasstown in plantation that they go back and beat him with the machinegun, as flying should make him a joke, and was amused to find that they didn't even have to move to beat him--the machinegun to the face killed it in under a second.

Sand zone they breezed through, with the exception of the sand crocs near Omega. Everyone knows Curly's not a challenge, nor is Omega. I was surprised to watch them pulverize Toroko on the first try, only taking one hit. There was a funny moment in the first part of the Labrynth when I was talking with them about something or another and even though they remembered it as well as me we BOTH weren't paying attention and forgot about the moving blocks until the first one starts moving out of nowhere and throws Quote off the platform and to the bottom of the room. Pooh Black was less of a challenge than the enemies outside his room, or at least that's the impression I got from them (I know the first time they beat him they died walking back). Monster X was a brick wall which I eventually just did for them; with coaching one actually managed to get to the second half with the fish missiles, but he was just too hard and I didn't want to be mean. Mostly they kept getting run over. Balrog's last battle was scraped through with one hit point remaining on the first try, even with an extremely funny cheap hit at the beginning (they didn't realize the fight had started until he'd already grabbed them for ten damage, since he starts RIGHT NEXT TO YOU and always runs at you first). The most surprising part of the entire affair was the core. The less skilled one only had any trouble at all because they had reached him with considerably less than half their health (and again refused to get it back by killing the enemies outside a bunch, though on the other hand that would be the bubble enemies and I'm honestly not sure they'd make a net profit), and the more skilled one beat him on I believe her first try with only 15 health going in. This prompted me having a lot of fun asking them to compare him to other bosses; apparently they didn't think the Core was hard AT ALL. Anyways, Ironfish killed them a few times only because the waterway left them battered and bruised by the time they got to him. The sisters (who, like Balrog one, I didn't have the heart to tell them was optional) gave them a lot of trouble, mostly due to that one "both shoot at once and don't close your mouth this time" attack (which, of course, would level down the machinegun and lead to a downward spiral) until I finally suggested leveling the bubbler up to level three (they'd let it fall to two) and fleeing to a corner during that attack while using it as a shield; the very next try was a success. Last cave currently has them stuck, but not for too long I suspect; the bosses after, though, I doubt they'll be able to do.

As for weaponry, they basically ignored the missiles except for when I specifically told them to use them, even during boss battles. The egg corridor was entirely polar star. In grasstown they seemed to choose randomly between all three of the existing weapons with no regards to the situation at hand (they didn't switch away from the fireball for killing the bats above the pits, for instance), though they agreed that the fireball was the most fun. The bubbler more or less never saw any use. Once they got Curly's machinegun, they basically stopped using any other weapon ever, even the fireball (at least not while I was watching), though I can hardly blame them. They were even reluctant to switch if it got knocked down a level (or two) during a boss battle. They certainly loved the flight ability, and loved killing enemies from above. The knife seemed cool at first but was quickly forgotten in favor of the machinegun again.

It's easy to forget what the game was like back when it was still hard, and not just while doing a low HP run. I mean, I could do normal last cave with one hand tied behind my back and low HP, but for them it's sheer torture. Also interesting how the parts I find hardest and the parts they do are so entirely not the same. Guess some of the magic fades once you've got too much skill. Anyways, anyone got any thoughts on any of the contents of this overly long post?

[ZarroTsu]

Nobody on my plain of existence wants to even touch cavestory, it would seem. It's not even a simple point that they dislike it, they simply don't want to try it.

[tmntyoshi]

THis makes me feel liek i suck at the game and would get owned by 8 year olds
well actually i can make it to the sacred grounds but it would take me longer.

[innocent.bystander]

I think young children's brains just work differently, that's why they behaved in such weird ways.

[dooey100]

Nobody on my plain of existence wants to even touch cavestory, it would seem. It's not even a simple point that they dislike it, they simply don't want to try it.

If they have a Wii, gift it to them once its out on WiiWare. Thats what I plan to do.

[Lyger]

It really is interesting, watching beginners take unnecessary hits from enemies, use the completely wrong strategy on bosses, etc... it's easy to forget that you were once like that.

But yeah, that was pretty interesting to read.

[Wedge of Cheese]

This reminds me of the time I tried to get my dad to play Cave Story. It was really interesting, because he used to play a few video games in his youth, but hasn't really done much gaming since then. I could tell that he was used to the crude physics engines of older games, in which, when you press a directional key, your character instantly starts moving in that direction, and when you release the key, your character instantly stops. The fact that Quote actually had momentum totally messed him up. In the Egg Corridor, he kept sliding over the edges of the platforms and landing right on top of Basil.

[DragonBoots]

I could tell that he was used to the crude physics engines of older games, in which, when you press a directional key, your character instantly starts moving in that direction, and when you release the key, your character instantly stops. The fact that Quote actually had momentum totally messed him up.

I've never played a game w/o momentum. Care to cite a few?

And this takes me back to the computer lab at my school. I'd hang there with my friend Matt (not on the forums, as far as I know) and play Adventure Quest. Anyways, one day he brough out this game, and I asked him if it was Mario. Nope. Cave Story. Now, the comps here were laggy as hell so the physics were really off, but I took a crack at it. Took me a couple minutes to master the controls (alas, I'm used to primary button jump, secondary attack...). And. I kept dying to the same enemy: Mannan. I honestly couldn't tell that the pinkish-blue blobs were enemies. And thats about as close as I've ever come to being with an 8 year old playing CS.

[tmntyoshi]

games without momentum like atari.

[DoubleThink]

The first time I tried played this game (2000 and... 6 I think?), I simply didn't have the experience or game-sense that I do now, so I really didn't know much about what I was doing. Most parts took me at least a few tries. Memorable parts even include the First Cave, where I died a whole bunch of times on those spikes because I couldn't be arsed to jump them properly. Balfrog was a pain, as were those jumps before him which I just couldn't time right. Getting to and battling Omega was a similar experience. Pooh Black killed me the first time because it took me too long to realise that he can still damage you while he's evaporating >_> Monster X took me a long time, I think I beat him chiefly with the Bubbler. In fact, the pattern for most boss fights involved me finding the right weapon to use in the right place. The Last Cave was especially hard (I had made sure to spoil the game for myself and take the 'good' path) and involved long minutes farming those ever-spawning bats and killing all the Presses with the Bubbler and Spur instead of running under them. Don't remember much about the final battles, and I eventually beat Hell with some helpful practice in Boss Rush

The whole game was a good challenge the first time I played it, since I hadn't cottoned on to the whole 'most things in games die very fast if you just spam them' strategy. I'm much better now, of course~. As for siblings, I gave it to my sister to try, but she has a short attention span and tends to leave things unfinished <_< I think she is/was up to Toroko++.