333 replies to this topic

[Dunc2403]

I know I've taken forever, but if we could all pitch in and get this final part completed as quickly as possible we will finally have our first complete community project and I can move on with my life

[Noxid]

I will see to it that Tyrone gets a copy when it's ready.

[DoubleThink]

I can handle that, I just want him to read my message about achievements first :/

[DoubleThink]

All changes have now been listed; also added in the locations of all the "Takes" I forgot to do last time; probably missed something

My excuse this time: I think I have a sinus infection. This would explain why I'm constantly slightly ill and why it never goes away. Thank goodness the project didn't start while I was still at uni >_>

Regardless, I'm done now. Without further adieu, I present Take 8's master build. It includes a copy of the UDT, as well as versions of the tilesets for Void and Grit Zone that show where the relevant tiles are (just rename them, and remember to change them back afterwards). It's as close to being worth the wait as I could possibly get it, and now everyone can pitch in and contribute once more.

Things to look for/give feedback on:
-Any events that don't appear to work properly/are missing/can be abused
-Anything I left that shouldn't be there (non-functioning code is okay)
-Any inconsistent door effects/fades/<MYD's
-Comments on your own individual areas and how badly I've gutted them
-Difficulty level (as a whole it's meant to be fairly hard)
-Dialogue
-Really anything you can think of

Known errors I need help with:
-The lights on the teleporter in Grit Zone Dust Storm are offset by two pixels to the left
-Falling out of the start of the Tower of Tempest 2F causes a water splashing sound to play; I think this is because the map is so tall, and if there's no way around it I can just fill the floor in with spikes instead
-Things I need to talk to Hiino about
-Things I need to talk to andwhyisit about
-I don't really need help with this, but Map 31 "Don't Go Here" is essentially a replica of the Safe House v2 that I had to abandon because it's the map number that has Ironhead assigned to it, which results in glitchy madness that seems unavoidable

FOR THE LOVE OF BALLOS, DO NOT PRESENT THIS TO TYRONE OR MAKE ANY PERMANENT CHANGES WITHOUT TELLING ME ABOUT THEM

I'm feeling more than a little mentally drained after months of work, even if it wasn't exactly consistent, so try to keep your language reasonable even if you don't like what I've done. I ended up leaving out the individual level selection and speedrun mode, after deciding a while ago that the mod wasn't really designed for them and that it would waste even more time. Like I said, I've done my part for now, so it's up to you lot now - all of you, you don't have to have contributed before this. If you want any more information about what I've changed, please ask about it and I'll get back to you ASAP.

I'm going to bed.

[ShinyElectricBlueTiger]

I will just continuously update this file (.doc form by the way) as I play the game. Also when I complete the mod I will post the entire thing onto here [Last Update: 5/19/12 8:51 EST]

Through the 30 min+ that I've played so far (up to and including Grit Zone), I am not very pleased. So far, the mod seems to be a drag to play rather than that you can select from a menu screen and have a good time. Edit: Thanks for Hiino for reminding me, but I feel that the reason why this mod tens to drag is because it has been trial-and-error type of stuff, and that's just never fun in any game.
The problem is, Take 8 is not a challenge mod but rather a full blown Cave Story replacement separated by little challenges. Now, I know that the point of this project was to produce something meaty rather than a bunch of little tiny challenges (and finally get the community to make a project together after the 8th attempt), but that's just me.

Okay it's done. I was tired when making the end so meh. Mostly note/random thoughts/etc

Spoiler

1. (NOTE: Exempted when I met Itoh) Jack doesn't necessarily seem himself. He seems a little darker rather than the somewhat mixed seriousness and goofiness that I interpreted him as. He hasn’t been characterized in the original game that much so I guess that's okay
2. Auto Saving in some areas
3. Make Booster v0.8 equip upon receiving it just like any other CS+ challenge mod
4. First chest in Grit Zone is graphically bugged (open chest layered on top of closed one)
5. The third part of the Machine Gun tutorial may not work for some keyboards
6. In Loonarsols area, it seems unlikely that the player will figure out that you have to press down near each statue insanely soon. Add some sparkles or something. Geez.
7. Note to difficulty curve: Trial n Error -> Trial n Error -> Somewhat Trial n Error -> Easy stuff.
8. Beds have an unnecessary black even though this doesn’t really matter in the end
9. Missing <KEY in the “How the heck did you manage to get up here?” door even though it’s not 100% needed
10. Re-entering door in the Safe House after you fix everything in Hiino’s mod brings you to the bottom of the Tower of the Tempest. Tried this again and it brought me back normally. I don’t know why…
11. The left wall in the Safe House is passable and can cause you to fall off the map and eventually drown just like any other time you fall off a map


First thoughts: Slow and dull to this point in my honest opinion.

Second thoughts: Gets better eventually. The existence of Life Capsules throughout the game would be a good feature by the way

Final thoughts: Sure, it’s not perfect, but the pros equally match the cons. There’s the beginning part that in my opinion needs a good design overhaul that’s not filled with trial and error that dread me every single time I play, but then there’s the second half which is just absolutely fun and fair and stuff. Also, polishing polishing blah blah blah… And I feel that Lonarsould’s area is a bit too easy to play right after you play Lacid’s Pyramid and before those other shenanegains. Maybe it’s symbolic to the bed which is where you rest, hence the decreased difficulty? Idk. It’s a bit too late for me to discuss those types of shenanigans.

Edited by ShinyElectricBlueTiger, 20 May 2012 - 03:18 AM.

[Hiino]

The concept of the room with all the life capsules is cool. The "hidden" map at the beginning is a cool idea too, and overall the game has a lot of good concepts, thanks both to the makers of the areas and to DT's parsing.

But in game, the difficulty is a bit wrong. The areas in themselves aren't that hard, they're fun to play, and all, but there are no refills. At least in the first three areas.
Which means, unless you don't complete the areas perfectly without being hit, you lose your HPs forever. Which is a pretty bad, bad thing, because hey, how am I supposed to continue playing if I save the game after having completed an area with only 1 HP left? That's crazy and adds difficulty in a totally chaotic manner. It isn't user-friendly at all, and even I tried to avoid that in my total clusterfuck of an area.

Also some areas are quite obscure, like the Void (both literally and figuratively) where you can't see spikes, even with the GPS, which means the map is basically blind trial-and-error, as SEBTi said. Also the Sand Zone-like, where I... have to go through spikes (-10HP) to continue? But I saved at the beginning of the area with only 9 HP left, how am I supposed to do it? :|

Well, I think you got the point. It's great but the artificial difficulty has to be removed, so please put refills next to save points :<
Great job nevertheless DT.

[MagicDoors]

You could just make save points refill your health as well, if you have access to head.tsc. It would be better than having to change each individual map to add a refill station.

[DoubleThink]

But in game, the difficulty is a bit wrong. The areas in themselves aren't that hard, they're fun to play, and all, but there are no refills. At least in the first three areas.
Which means, unless you don't complete the areas perfectly without being hit, you lose your HPs forever. Which is a pretty bad, bad thing, because hey, how am I supposed to continue playing if I save the game after having completed an area with only 1 HP left? That's crazy and adds difficulty in a totally chaotic manner. It isn't user-friendly at all, and even I tried to avoid that in my total clusterfuck of an area.

There are a reasons for every area where I didn't include terminals:

Spoiler

-Everything in The Fall aside from the enemies at the end of the first map are 1-hit kills, so healing here makes no difference
-I tied that into the Rest Station, where in order to get the +3 without dying the player has to both complete The Fall and get all the life caps without taking damage (this is in order to give a temporary penalty for having 21 HP, which makes a lot of later places easier)
-The Grit Zone is full of heal spots, and I added some hearts in before the first wind section; if that doesn't suffice I could put a terminal there instead
-There are no heals at the first save point in the Pyramid and the enemies don't respawn (by original design), but I thought that that first stretch was easy enough that it didn't need them
-Heals everywhere in Zangetsu
-Access has lots of hearts in the pipeline rooms, and I put an enemy after the second save in the 'damaged' version so the player can grind hearts if they really need to
-The Tower of Tempest also has plenty of heals, the challenge is not to use them

Also some areas are quite obscure, like the Void (both literally and figuratively) where you can't see spikes, even with the GPS, which means the map is basically blind trial-and-error, as SEBTi said.

It's always been like that and nobody had complained about it before :[ The difficulty is the reason I made it optional, and the only change I can think of that won't completely break the design is to make the regular tiles visible so that the player has to only find where the spikes are. Alternately, you could go yell at Dunc about it

Also the Sand Zone-like, where I... have to go through spikes (-10HP) to continue? But I saved at the beginning of the area with only 9 HP left, how am I supposed to do it? :|

GRIND

...That was a bit of an oversight. I guess putting a terminal there wouldn't be too bad really, seeing as it's still fairly early in the mod. The difficulty of getting the 21 life might be enough punishment on its own.

Answers @ SEBTi in order:

Spoiler

1. I thought he was going to come off as too goofy, not too serious
2. Should be or shouldn't be? I thought I removed all of these.
3. The challenge for that area is to complete it without using the Booster 0.8
4. Will (try to) fix
5. I forgot about that. Welp Not much I can do about it because the whole area is dependent on it.
6. Eh. I could add some sparkles to the first statue to make it clear they should be interacted with, but I think it's pretty obvious to talk to the one down in the hole seeing as it's the only thing there.
7. I couldn't think of a way to fit Zangetsu in any earlier plot-wise, so I guess consider it more of an atmospheric area.
8. You mean fade out? It's necessary for all map changes/teleports, and if someone wants to keep sleeping beyond that then good for them.
9. Yes it is will fix
10. Will try to fix/figure out
11. It appears that I used the wrong version of that tile by mistake; like I said, tired

Could you be more specific about what you mean regarding trial and error? The Fall shows you where you'll drop (the first time at least - I could remove the skipflags but I didn't want the scenes to become tedious), and The Trench is pretty easy after the part where you reach the Booster 0.8. I could up the starting HP to 6, but the player would still be screwed if they took a spike to the knee and then had to get through the part with the enemies without getting hit.

Yeah, the Rest station is basically a puzzle area, but I wanted to do something vaguely interesting with the life caps. I decided 18 (with 21 as a bonus) was a good balance for the middle four areas, because that's roughly what they were originally designed around (only ToT and BMMJ had a lot more). The only other part I can think of that's memory-heavy is the first Grit Zone wind section, but once you pass the first part it's rather easy to cheese it, especially with the Legs Shield.

[ShinyElectricBlueTiger]

Actually, in lunarsould's mod, what if the player actually does not encounter the one on the bottom first? Then they're stuck in the top having absoluely no idea, so I feel that the sparkles are necessary in that area.

Okay, I can admit, but I did not get any life capsules in the rest area. In fact, I almost thought that you had to go through most of the game with only 3 health Yeah I didn't really try, but I didn't really feel that the player shouldn't be punished by redrafting the game or just going through the entire game with 3 health untill they get the expansion for 20 health. My suggestion: add 3 separate H/V triggers near the whole, and one H/V trigger near the hearts or have one/all of the hearts set a flag. Add <FLJXXXX:0000 at the beginning of the 3 H/V triggers, bump and face the character to the left with <MYB (?) and <MYD (?), and have Itoh pester you saying that it is possible/whatever you want him to say. When you reach the exit,...

You know what I'm going to continue this on an actual computer because typing on an iPod is shitty and not fun. I could also give you what I meant by the "black part of the bed" (which is not the fading out)

[DoubleThink]

Actually, in lunarsould's mod, what if the player actually does not encounter the one on the bottom first? Then they're stuck in the top having absoluely no idea, so I feel that the sparkles are necessary in that area.

I meant I would put sparkles on the first statue and only the first statue

Okay, I can admit, but I did not get any life capsules in the rest area. In fact, I almost thought that you had to go through most of the game with only 3 health etc.

I think I'll wait and see if anyone else has a problem with this first .-. I also don't know how to access Itoh's right-facing sprite so what I can do with him is a bit limited. Probably a basic system message would be best.

You know what I'm going to continue this on an actual computer because typing on an iPod is shitty and not fun. I could also give you what I meant by the "black part of the bed" (which is not the fading out)

Please do